Eran's All-New Mormonism Thread

[GenMarshall]

This is for Eran of Arcadia (or any Mormon Poster if they wish to answer). Were you born and raised into Mormonism or converted sometime during your childhood/teenage years?

Also, I have read in my local paper about two Mormon boys going around New London offering people service to do their chores and as well as discussing about God and Jesus. The paper covered the two Mormon boys on their mission in the city. What is the pourpouse of Mormon Missionaries? and how do they overcome doing their Missonary service in a state that is predominately Roman Catholic (50% of the population in the State of Connecticut are Roman Catholic) or any state that is predominately Protestant (such as the Bible Belt of the south)?

 

[.Shane.]

Not to be pedantic, but it's Joseph Smith.

ROFL, freudian slip, I was discussing the "story" of Pocahontas w/ an office worker this morning and I was mixing my Smiths. A bit embarassing.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

This is for Eran of Arcadia (or any Mormon Poster). Were you born and raised into Mormonism or converted sometime during your childhood/teenage years?

Also, I have read in my local paper about two Mormon boys going around New London offering people service to do their chores and as well as discussing about God and Jesus. The paper covered the two Mormon boys on their mission in the city. What is the pourpouse of Mormon Missionaries? and how do they overcome doing their Missonary service in a state that is predominately Roman Catholic (50% of the population in the State of Connecticut are Roman Catholic) or any state that is predominately Protestant (such as the Bible Belt of the south)?

I was born into the Church (my parents had joined about a year before I was born) although some of my family members later left it. But every year there are about 4 times as many converts as children born in the church, so most members are converts.

Missionaries are primarily proselytizers - we go around and look for people who want to learn more about us, then we teach them, and if they want to join we baptize them. (I shouldn't say "we", as I already ended my missionary service.) Therefore, they are looking for people who are not members of the church already, since they are the ones who will join. And actually, the church is growing a lot in the South, surprisingly. The biggest growth area is Latin America. In general, the more Christian an area is, the more people will join the church - which is why we do better in Africa and Latin America than in Europe, for instance.

Missionaries do other things, such as helping non-churchgoing members to return, or providing leadership where the church is new, or just doing service.

 

[.Shane.]

Additionally, as a student of history I can recognize the difference between religious and historical claims. As a historian, I would never try to judge the claims of Joseph Smith or other founders of Mormonism, I would just try to identify them in the context of their time. As a believer, I say that his claims were true. But there is a difference.

Well, you judge when and if the context is appropriate. In a general survey of US history, Colonial to Civil War, then you typically address Mormonism in view of the religious revivalism that largely swept the country in the 1810s-1840 or so, that was particularly focused on the "Burned over district" in upstate New York. Other than that, in the general classes, you also talk about Mormonism as part of the examination of the development of the Western United States.

However, say you had an upper division class focused primarly on the Early National Era or a class on religious history in the US, you'd get into Mormonism in a wholly different light and depth.

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Side-note, does the Mormon church have large holdings in public companies or is that urban myth?

Also, how do you view passages in the BoM that describe things that just were not true in the Americas during the time described? All kinds of things regarding the types of animals, the types of crops, and the metal-working capabilities are just wholly false compared to the historical record.

 

[downtown]

Wow, is this thread new or something, or did I just totally miss it?

For the record, I wont be leaving CFC for a few months yet (I'm going to be going on a mission, like Eran did)...so I too will jump into the fray to help out Eran.

Civgeneral-I was born into the church. My mother, and her entire family, converted while they lived in Brazil. My dad is an "old time Mormon", and we can trace him back to when the church was actually founded (Eran: A little LDS trivia...apparently, I am a direct decendant of Newl K. Whitney. We have some of his stuff in my house)

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Side-note, does the Mormon church have large holdings in public companies or is that urban myth?

The church does own publicly-traded stock and other properties through one of its divisions, but as far as I know they are not the majority shareholders of anything.

Also, how do you view passages in the BoM that describe things that just were not true in the Americas during the time described? All kinds of things regarding the types of animals, the types of crops, and the metal-working capabilities are just wholly false compared to the historical record.

The church has no official doctrine on this. But in my opinion, based on context, such anachronisms fall into one of three categories:

1. Many of these are used as figures of speech or analogies. As long as Book of Mormon people had once known of these, there is no problem.
2. In some cases it may be due to language. Often when a people arrives in a new area they give names to the flora and fauna based on what they knew before, which is how, say, "corn", originally a different kind of grain, is used to describe the New World's maize. This is where I think a lot of the metal words come from.
3. In some cases I chalk it up to historical embellishment. Many of these crops, animals, and metals appear in lists ("with our horses, and cattle, and goats, and wild goats", etc.) which are often used to distinguish the Nephites (the supposedly more advanced and more righteous group, from whom the authors of the Book of Mormon come) from the "savage" Lamanites. And since a lot of the book was abridged and rewritten hundreds of years after the events it describes, Mormon wouldn't have known that they were exaggerations, so he copied them.

 

[downtown]

The church does own publicly-traded stock and other properties through one of its divisions, but as far as I know they are not the majority shareholders of anything.
.

I dont know about the Church owning anything, but several LDS people own bussinesses. I think the guy who runs Marriot hotels in LDS...or at least donated a ton of stuff to BYU. I'm sure there are others

 

[.Shane.]

3. In some cases I chalk it up to historical embellishment. Many of these crops, animals, and metals appear in lists ("with our horses, and cattle, and goats, and wild goats", etc.) which are often used to distinguish the Nephites (the supposedly more advanced and more righteous group, from whom the authors of the Book of Mormon come) from the "savage" Lamanites. And since a lot of the book was abridged and rewritten hundreds of years after the events it describes, Mormon wouldn't have known that they were exaggerations, so he copied them.

I'm not sure what you mean. Goats, cows, and horses existed nowhere in the Americas prior to Columbus. IIRC, the BoM describes things such as metal swords, smithys, etc... things that also did not exist in pre-Colombian America. The only possible exception known to date being the Viking descendents in Greenland and in the L’Anse aux Meadows colony in Newfoundland, Canada. But those date to ~1100 AD and given the geographic location and fact that they were strictly of European origins, I don't think its applicable.

Regarding the "misnaming" of corn, barley, wheat, etc... aren't the texts divinely interpreted? This would mean that God intentionally left an irregularity. Also, I'm not sure that a Middle Eastern word for corn mistranslated or left incorrect by god would somehow come out as "corn" and not some bad derrivation. I really think your explanation is a large and difficult to support supposition.

 

[covok48]

1st Question: Why are there so many young mormon couples? Why do they have children so soon?

I lived in western Wyoming for 8 years when when we'd go to Park City/ Salt Lake City to go shop we were simply amazed at all the couples (really young couples too) with children already!

2nd Question: Mormons on the whole are very family centered. What keeps these families together so strongly in an age where half of all families get divorced?

 

[FriendlyFire]

Are blood transfusions banded under the mormans ?
(IIRC it was mormans and christian scientist which band this medical practice)

 

[GenMarshall]

Are blood transfusions banded under the mormans ?
(IIRC it was mormans and christian scientist which band this medical practice)

Also a related question, are Mormans allowed to donate blood?

 

[downtown]

Are blood transfusions banded under the mormans ?
(IIRC it was mormans and christian scientist which band this medical practice)

No, you're thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses. I have personally donated blood, and have recieved a blood transfusions

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

I'm not sure what you mean. Goats, cows, and horses existed nowhere in the Americas prior to Columbus. IIRC, the BoM describes things such as metal swords, smithys, etc... things that also did not exist in pre-Colombian America. The only possible exception known to date being the Viking descendents in Greenland and in the L’Anse aux Meadows colony in Newfoundland, Canada. But those date to ~1100 AD and given the geographic location and fact that they were strictly of European origins, I don't think its applicable.

Regarding the "misnaming" of corn, barley, wheat, etc... aren't the texts divinely interpreted? This would mean that God intentionally left an irregularity. Also, I'm not sure that a Middle Eastern word for corn mistranslated or left incorrect by god would somehow come out as "corn" and not some bad derrivation. I really think your explanation is a large and difficult to support supposition.

The Book of Mormon didn't come straight from God's mouth. It was written down by men over the course of several centuries, and they admitted that there would be room for error.

The swords described in the BoM are not specifically metal and the descriptions are more like the swords Mesoamericans were known to use. Again, the writers of the BoM would know of the existence of cows and horses and whatnot, as some of their ancestors had lived in the Middle East, they just didn't have them themselves. They said they did, though, in order to look better than their enemies.

And I didn't mean that corn was misnamed. It is more along the lines of, "hey, this plant/animal/metal in the New World looks like one from our old home, let's give it the same name."

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

1st Question: Why are there so many young mormon couples? Why do they have children so soon?

I lived in western Wyoming for 8 years when when we'd go to Park City/ Salt Lake City to go shop we were simply amazed at all the couples (really young couples too) with children already!

2nd Question: Mormons on the whole are very family centered. What keeps these families together so strongly in an age where half of all families get divorced?

1st answer: we don't allow sex before marriage. You figure out why we get married so young.

2nd answer: We emphasize family values (in the "spend time with your spouse and kids" type, not the "gays are taking over America" type) and often church lessons revolve around how to be better parents and spouses.

 

[GenMarshall]

Hmm, Sex before marrage is not allowed. Hmm. It almost sounds like the Catholic views on pre-marital sex. For family values, that almost sounds like what the Catholic church emphasize.

1. Do the LDS have an agreed set for the 10 commandments. If so, could you list them so that I can compaire and contrast it with the ten commandments the Catholic Church uses?

2. I know the Catholic Church has a catechism class for converts older than the age of reason (known as Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults). Does the LDS have some sourt of catechism program for converts?

 

[downtown]

Hmm, Sex before marrage is not allowed. Hmm. It almost sounds like the Catholic views on pre-marital sex. For family values, that almost sounds like what the Catholic church emphasize.

1. Do the LDS have an agreed set for the 10 commandments. If so, could you list them so that I can compaire and contrast it with the ten commandments the Catholic Church uses?

2. I know the Catholic Church has a catechism class for converts older than the age of reason (known as Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults). Does the LDS have some sourt of catechism program for converts?

1) As far as I know, the ten commandments are the same for every christian church. Thou shalt not kill, adultry, other gods before me, etc etc. I'm sure you're all familar.

2) I dont really think its as formal as a catechism class. New converts are given the missioinary discussions, and most wards offer classes for new converts to help them become more comfortable with Mormon docterine. I'm not sure if those are required or not (I think if they wanted, they could go to class every everybody else on sunday)

 

[GenMarshall]

1) As far as I know, the ten commandments are the same for every christian church. Thou shalt not kill, adultry, other gods before me, etc etc. I'm sure you're all familar.

Well, I have compared and contrasted the ten commandments between the Catholic 10 Commandments and the Protestant 10 Commandments and noticed the difference on how they ordered each of the commandment.

 

[downtown]

I'm not sure if the order matters, but I imagine we'd be the same as the Protestants....we use the King James version of the bible...isnt that what protestants use?

 

[bhsup]

I'm not sure if the order matters, but I imagine we'd be the same as the Protestants....we use the King James version of the bible...isnt that what protestants use?

There is no one "Protestant" translation/version. I do personally use the King James version, some use the Revised King James (and I have one of those as well), some use New International Version (NIV), some use a paraphrased Bible (but the mention of flashlights in those turned me off ) , and so forth.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, I have compared and contrasted the ten commandments between the Catholic 10 Commandments and the Protestant 10 Commandments and noticed the difference on how they ordered each of the commandment.

Catholics and other Christians use a slightly different ordered set of the 10 Commandments; if I remember correctly, the Catholic version combines "no other gods" with "no graven images" while splitting up "coveting they neighbors wife" and "thy neighbor's ass" into different ones. But that is what I think all non-Catholic Christians do, not just Mormons, and in both cases it is based off the text of Exodus 20, it's just the arbitrary numbering system added later is different for the two.