Ethics of Amazon

[Lexicus]

How does "funding your allies" lead to "becoming a stylite"? Like, seriously, everyone seems to read these posts that literally suggest proactive behavior and read "withdrawing".

Because if the entire capitalist class (not just Amazon) is my enemies, there's very little (in fact, virtually nothing) that I can consume that does not lead to "funding my enemies." So withdrawal from society would seem to be indicated.

 

[local_hero]

Amazon just lost a legal dispute in Sweden for.. Hm... Invalid notice (to terminate employment?). The court apparently judged entirely in favor of the employee. He will receive 50.000 SEK (about 5600 dollars) as compensation, legal costs paid and 16 months of salary. He would have preferred to keep his job though.

 

[Hrothbern]

Amazon just lost a legal dispute in Sweden for.. Hm... Invalid notice (to terminate employment?). The court apparently judged entirely in favor of the employee. He will receive 50.000 SEK (about 5600 dollars) as compensation, legal costs paid and 16 months of salary. He would have preferred to keep his job though.

This is what I also see as first line of defense against labor abusion like Amazon applies in countries that have better labor conditions.
Assertive behavior of employees to exercise their rights in such countries and backed by lawyers on their turn backed by laws on their turn backed by trade-unions and relevant political parties.

The other basic line of defense is possible because Amazon cannot transfer the bulk of the needed working hours to countries like China.
This means that the workers are in the country where the profit is made.
That offers room for giving workers part of the profit

EDIT
and with all the international profit transferring through tricks
Another defense line would be to increase the minimum wage with a surplus based on the capital intensity of the facility
Normally workers in highly mechanised facilities, like car assembling, do already have a relativel good wage.
But with companies like Amazon logistic centres this "standard" is broken and you get the lowest that law enables (in countries with decent level laws)

 

[El_Machinae]

Because if the entire capitalist class (not just Amazon) is my enemies, there's very little (in fact, virtually nothing) that I can consume that does not lead to "funding my enemies." So withdrawal from society would seem to be indicated.

Perfect being the enemy of the good in this case. Capitalists might be your enemy, but pick your battles. This liberal internal consensus that individual choices don't matter is its unnecessary weakness

 

[Farm Boy]

Many mouths, no hands.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

The complaint that I keep hearing about Amazon is how they have become a monopoly. Amazon have driven almost all high street stores out of business. Without competition, Amazon can raise prices and lower quality because there's no reason to keep their prices low or to sell products of a higher quality.

 

[Hrothbern]

The complaint that I keep hearing about Amazon is how they have become a monopoly. Amazon have driven almost all high street stores out of business. Without competition, Amazon can raise prices and lower quality because there's no reason to keep their prices low or to sell products of a higher quality.

I think highstreets going down has most of all to do with the by consumers perceived advantages of online shopping.
The traditional benefit that a shop has employees with expert knowhow on the goods you buy is made obsolete with internet browsing on quality and capabilities as well and employees were already chosen for cost and not service knowhow from a long term employment.
With as additional blow the penetration of Chinese giants directly to the rich western consumers.
I also think that shops in highstreets now start feeling that their rents or interests were much higher than really sustainable.

The monopoly is that the economy of scale coupled with mechanisation and AI has such high advantages in cost and logistic service quality that the barrier to entry for new competitors will simply become too high.
The only thing Amazon needs to do is outcompete the rest of the providers into oblivion even when servicing at operational losses.
After that phase in a region that region becomes a money printing device.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Because if the entire capitalist class (not just Amazon) is my enemies, there's very little (in fact, virtually nothing) that I can consume that does not lead to "funding my enemies." So withdrawal from society would seem to be indicated.

i remember seeing an infographic that showed how many brands were actually owned by like 10 huge corporations. Yay illusion of choice.

 

[MaryKB]

For anyone who hasn't seen it, I highly recommend watching The Good Place.

A major concept that show explored is how modern life has become so convoluted, it is literally impossible to lead a good life. Everything you do is tied to some sort of injustice or another, and thus everyone is being condemned to the Bad Place (and it's been like this for 500 years) The point is, no matter what, you will discover something ultimately is unethical.

[Rest of post redacted - I mainly wrote it for cathartic purposes]

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Amazon is not a monopoly. Not even close. And it never will be.

 

[MaryKB]

Methinks someone might not understand what a monopoly is

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Closer to an oliogopoly.

 

[MaryKB]

Closer to an oliogopoly.

No. Again, part of the requirements to be an oligopoly is that it harms consumers by raising prices. Considering Amazon drives prices down, that completely negates the charge.

Amazon is successful because it is a customer-focused company.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

No they are successful because they are big enough to out-compete everyone else

 

[MaryKB]

Do you think they suddenly popped into existence as a huge entity overnight? They got where they are because of customer focus and innovation.

 

[El_Machinae]

For anyone who hasn't seen it, I highly recommend watching The Good Place.

Please redact your spoilers!

It's one of my favourite shows of all time, hands down

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

And because they spend a few million dollars lobbyists for laws more favorable to them. Smaller businesses cant exactly spare that.

 

[El_Machinae]

No. Again, part of the requirements to be an oligopoly is that it harms consumers by raising prices. Considering Amazon drives prices down, that completely negates the charge.

Amazon is successful because it is a customer-focused company.

The damage from an oligopoly is that they can raise prices, but an organization can be an oligopoly without doing so. It's the risk, which is why we legislate against monopolies. But you make a good point, where Amazon out-competes other suppliers, and isn't yet damaging the consumer. I do think it has enabled single-click consumerism, which is overall bad, but is not really part of the monopoly or oligopoly discussion.

Once someone has a Prime subscription, they subconsciously feel like they have to justify it. And that's not a good thing.

 

[Lexicus]

Considering Amazon drives prices down, that completely negates the charge.

Amazon is able to drive prices down not because of innovation or anything like that, but because it can run the entire online store thing at a loss because the really profitable part of Amazon is running server farms, and that is where it has oligopoly power to control prices, shared with a few other companies like Google.

The strategy of running a company at a loss to undercut competitors on price until you can actually get monopoly-type market share and parley that into control of prices is actually more-or-less explicit in the case of Uber. I'm not sure whether Amazon is trying to do that with the retail market.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

The strategy of running a company at a loss to undercut competitors on price until you can actually get monopoly-type market share and parley that into control of prices is actually more-or-less explicit in the case of Uber.

Or buying out the competition. That happens a lot.

I'm not sure whether Amazon is trying to do that with the retail market.

I dont doubt it.