Ethnonationalism
- Thread starter Gecko1
- Start date
Yes, but that's not based on ethnicity.Most national traditions are related to food, alcohol and music, one way or another
echinococcus said:
The late Ottoman state conducted the first modern genocide against the Armenians, making the modern Turkish nation-state possible. Often the uncompromising universalism of enlightenment thinking results in the worst atrocities because all dissent is swept aside - all in the name of progress. French Imperialism contained a paradox in that it preached universal education and rational production much more so than, say, British Imperialism, but in reality le mission civilisatrice worked as a steamroller, eradicating culture and particularity on a massive scale.Gecko1 said:
Similarly, one could argue that the failure of US Iraq policy in the period of 2003-2006 derives from it's classic French imperial doctrine. The tendency now is towards a British Imperial approach which seems to work much better, utilizing local power structures but relinquishing claims to democracy promotion etc.
I guess if things continue to improve the US might relapse, as the US is basically biased towards French Imperial ambition. I see this as very likely if McCain is pres.
TDK
Echinococcus, you being a German I understand where you are coming from qua the French constitutional model being more likable than the blood and soil ideologies of the German past. It's just strange that you put forth Ataturk's Turkey as an example to follow, knowing that they had to wipe out 2 million people to get there. But maybe you didn't know?echinococcus said:
TDK
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
Your are Franks, they're Celts. We've had this discussion before, Steph.
As far as them getting drunk and playing strange music, who doesn't?
I don't drink alcohol, and I can't play any musicYour are Franks, they're Celts. We've had this discussion before, Steph.
As far as them getting drunk and playing strange music, who doesn't?
.Beside, I'm not Frank, I'm Savoyard
. With a mix of Russian, Romanian, Turkish and Chouan ancestry I think
Masquerouge
Deity
Your are Franks, they're Celts. We've had this discussion before, Steph.
Franks? Celts? You mean 1500 years ago, right?
Swedishguy
Deity
Ethnonationalism isn't evil in the same manner Nazism isn't evil.
echinococcus
Prince
Nazism is exactly the same evil that raping babies to death on a satanic alter is.
Swedishguy
Deity
People should have a right to identify and govern themselves as they please.
For the US, that has meant identifying with a secular government primarily, and then as an ethnicity, etc.
If another society sees things a different way, that's their choice, and what right do I have to tell them how to identify themselves? Isn't that a fundamental aspect of self-determination? Can you really have self-determination without free identification?
For the US, that has meant identifying with a secular government primarily, and then as an ethnicity, etc.
If another society sees things a different way, that's their choice, and what right do I have to tell them how to identify themselves? Isn't that a fundamental aspect of self-determination? Can you really have self-determination without free identification?
It is about as evil as humans are capable of.
Swedishguy
Deity
No. Nazism has a lot of stability you know.
I disagree with this, nominally everyone is French, but if you are not BBR* your chances are not the same as everyone else's.
An example of not everyone agreeing that they are French and only French is the wearing of Algerian jerseys to support Zinedine Zidane rather than France.
* BBR = Bleu Blanc Rouge or Blue White and Red, ie French French
Holycannoli
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2006
- Messages
- 2,406
It definitely is evil. Have you actually read what the Nazi party stood for?
Please, you really don't want to reinforce the belief that there's still Nazi sympathizers in Sweden do you?
As for ethnonationalism, I think it's outdated. I'm all for nationalism but not ethnonationalism.
EDIT: But like Bill300 said below, we here in the States don't have the kind of nationalism you might have in europe, so my support of nationalism might look a bit weird.
Ethnonationalism is precisely why the balkans (including Turkey) is so screwed up.
We have no major minorities that have a sense of ethnonationalism. Natives got screwed cuz we beat 'em, and we don't have the First Nation policies that Canada has. The only possible minority that I can think of that would even consider it would be mexicans, but that's so far from mainstream that it's not even funny. Nationalism in the european sense simply doesn't exist here.
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
I don't drink alcohol, and I can't play any music
Beside, I'm not Frank, I'm Savoyard
SAVOYARD = Italian? So you're not really French either, then. Sorry you
don't get drunk or play strange music though. Must be a quiet life for you.
BTW What's a "Chouan"?
jessiecat
Divine Monarch
No I mean now. Steph said "we're all French now". Some of his fellow citizens
would still disagree, even after 1500 years.
