Eugene of Savoy

[Quildavyr]

So because Cafer Pasha informed Eugene,this made him able for a surprise attack

 

[Dachs]

So because Cafer Pasha informed Eugene,this made him able for a surprise attack

That had little enough to do with treachery and everything to do with him getting captured prior to the battle.

 

[Quildavyr]

That had little enough to do with treachery and everything to do with him getting captured prior to the battle.

But the information Cafer pasha provided to him was the key of all Eugene's plans

Seriously I do not doubt Eugene's skills as a general...

 

[Quildavyr]

triplepost..

 

[Quildavyr]

triplepost..

 

[Favorius]

I praise Eugene of Savoy's abilities as a general but I feel disgusted by the peoples' post regarding Ottomans as a 'horde', 'holocaust of Balkans' and etc.

Eugene of Savoy was a great general but killing muslims cannot be a part of his successes.

Battle of Zenta was the battle marked the beginning of end for 1683-1699 War, but note that under Mustafa II Ottomans were recovering from their defeats and they were ready to strike into Hungary. Unfortunately (or fortunately for those Turkish bashers) they were surprisely attacked while crossing the bridge.

As for slavery, I cannot see why my ancestors are being blamed? Europeans were also capturing slaves at that period. Difference is Turks were enslaving anyone got to their way. (We don't like discrimination )

 

[Dachs]

Ignore this post.

 

[holy king]

"people in this thread" is the OP alone, favorius.

 

[Traitorfish]

As for slavery, I cannot see why my ancestors are being blamed? Europeans were also capturing slaves at that period. Difference is Turks were enslaving anyone got to their way. (We don't like discrimination )

What are you talking about? The Ottoman Turks discriminated against Christians and non-Turks constantly. How do you think the Armenian Genocide came about, exactly, if not through an extremely brutal form of ethnic discrimination?
Yeah, the Europeans were as bad, if not worse, but that doesn't absolve your nation of it's past sins.

 

[Evie]

I think that was a joke, Traitorfish. The Ottomans certainly discriminated.

Also, bad example on the Armenian Genocide. That was much, much later, in the dying days of the Ottoman empire. Hardly representative of historical treatment of minorities by the Ottomans.

 

[REDY]

Well in 15th and 16th century there were some Czechs who were observing models of religious tolerance and travelled around Ottoman empire.

 

[@N1k1T0$]

The Ottoman empire certainly discriminated against not Muslims but to an extent it was a multicultural empire . But when western Europe was living the age of the Enlightenment i don't think any Balkan or European who would want to be under Ottoman rule...

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The Ottoman empire certainly discriminated against not Muslims but to an extent it was a multicultural empire . But when western Europe was living the age of the Enlightenment i don't think any Balkan or European who would want to be under Ottoman rule...

I disagree. The Ottoman Empire was probably at the vanguard of tolerance and until the end of the 18th Century.

 

[philippe]

I disagree. The Ottoman Empire was probably at the vanguard of tolerance and until the end of the 18th Century.

considering the religious tolerance of the 17th and 18th century, that isn't hard to believe.

 

[Evie]

That's sort of the point, yes.

I think even Iran has a fair claim to being very tolerant compared to 17th century Europe, so...

 

[Traitorfish]

I think that was a joke, Traitorfish. The Ottomans certainly discriminated.

Oh. Well, it wasn't very clear... Either that, or I'm even denser than I thought.

Also, bad example on the Armenian Genocide. That was much, much later, in the dying days of the Ottoman empire. Hardly representative of historical treatment of minorities by the Ottomans.

Yeah, fair point, bit of a knee-jerk reaction on my part... My reaction was to the blanket declaration that "Turks don't like discrimination", but I suppose it'd've been far more relevant to present an example of contemporary discrimination...

 

[Huayna Capac357]

When the Jews were expelled from "Christian" Spain in 1492, they went where? Muslim Ottoman Empire.

Turkish hordes? You may as well call Columbus' expedition a raiding party from the Spanish horde and Pizarro's and Cortes's expeditions barbarian expansions into civilized land.

 

[Evie]

Please. The whole world knows that civilization exists only in places that come under attack by the Evil Hordes of the Muhamedans.

It's not civilization until the Moslems have tried to destroy it![/A Certain Poster]

 

[@N1k1T0$]

I disagree. The Ottoman Empire was probably at the vanguard of tolerance and until the end of the 18th Century.

Well i think otherwise but i could be wrong. Always remember that the perspective of the one talking matters. If Christians discriminate against Muslims , for someone who comes from a Christian background or whose country is mostly Christian is a lot better than the opposite.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

I would rather be a Christian discriminated upon by a Muslim than the other way around.