Evidence for creationism, Part 2.

[Whiskey_Lord]

My undergraduate university offered a class called "The Bible as Literature" in which I assume the creation myth was taught in its entirety. Why not just offer that as an elective literature course in high school? Wouldn't that satisfy both sides who want their stuff taught in the curriculum?

 

[useless]

I was talking about the book which condoned: Homosexuals being executed and oppressed, the subjugation of women and condoned slavery; The bible.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Having us on, trying to get us to conclude you're other than you are.
As Homer Simpson once said to a New Yorker "I'm on to you" (but in a good way this time).

I don't know. The copy of Origin of Species was the Penguin Classics release, so it might have been put there with the other Penguin Classics books. The Noah's Ark thing I heard when I was on holiday a few years ago and I think came from a newspaper. I never read the newspaper, I only got shown it, and it showed a picture of what looked like a satellite view of a valley, and a painting of the Ark.

I was talking about the book which condoned: Homosexuals being executed and oppressed, the subjugation of women and condoned slavery; The bible.

Homosexuals is another thing they keep going on about. According to them they are one of the causes of all of Britain's problems.

 

[Behind The Mask]

I don't know. The copy of Origin of Species was the Penguin Classics release, so it might have been put there with the other Penguin Classics books. The Noah's Ark thing I heard when I was on holiday a few years ago and I think came from a newspaper. I never read the newspaper, I only got shown it, and it showed a picture of what looked like a satellite view of a valley, and a painting of the Ark.

Do you check your facts ever?

I'll deliver my insult following your answer.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

Do you check your facts ever?.

Before I was proven wrong about everything, I used to read science books.

 

[Miles Teg]

Yep, and proud of it!

Wonderful. In that case, I presume you think the continents were all formed during or immediately after the flood. In that case, how did animals get to their respective continents, in highly distinct patterns (modern marsupials in Auatralia for instance) that mimic the results predicted and confirms by biologists? And why did all dinosaurs (apart from birds) go extinct?

Additionally, highly conservative (no pun intended) estimates put the number of animals on the ark at 2,000, with more typical examples ranging to around 20,000 animals of a variety of kinds, with wildly different nutritional requirements. Noah took only eight people with him, right? How did they take care of all those critters? For comparison's sake, the Bronx Zoo has 4000 animals of 650 species, and has over a hundred employees just to handle the animals. Assuming that all of Noah's clan picked up exotic animal handling, pulled double shifts, and was just generally more competent than modern man, they still wouldn't have to care for all of the animals, even if the arc was sitting on the ground instead of bucking around in the middle of a storm, which would presumably require bailing out thousands of gallons of water (like all pre-modern ships)

Additionally, creationists argue that there would be no need to take animals like fish onto the arc, because they could swim for themselves. However, the deepsea is host to a horde of specialized creatures that depend on exacting micro-environments for their food and survival. For instance some fish require smooth, undisturbed river bottoms, while will die within moments if the watter presure surrounding them is too high or too low. These creatures are highly specialized, and don't have any less specialized relatives that they could have "micro-evolved" from after the flood. So how did they all survive?

Since they are Muslims, they would not want people to find proof of the Christian religion. That's common sense.

Dommy, you are aware that there are Muslim Creationists trying to prove almost exactly the same things you are, right? Granted the text is a little different, so they've got different problems (figuring out why Adam was 50 feet tall among them), but all the major details of Muslim and Christian creation stories line up.

 

[Behind The Mask]

Before I was proven wrong about everything, I used to read science books.

This in no way answers my question, and all I can truly infer from this response is that being 'proven wrong' to you is the equivalent of 'I heard from a friend whoses mate had a sister that said..."

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I'm sorry.

 

[Arakhor]

Unless "God did it" with the continents too, continental drift theory rather blows even a 10,000 year-old world out of the water.

 

[useless]

If the bible was correct he world would have a dome on top it but it does not

 

[GhostWriter16]

Wonderful. In that case, I presume you think the continents were all formed during or immediately after the flood. In that case, how did animals get to their respective continents, in highly distinct patterns (modern marsupials in Auatralia for instance) that mimic the results predicted and confirms by biologists? And why did all dinosaurs (apart from birds) go extinct?

Well, I don't buy Uniformatarian theory, so I don't believe just because the continents are currently moving a certain speed means they were always moving that speed. I believe that the effects of the Flood made them move faster. So I do accept that Pangea at one time did exist, or at the very minimum Russia and Alaska were connected.

As for Dinosaurs, it has to do with temperature changes after the Flood, though I do believe there are a few left. In the 1500's they definitely existed (At the time, the definition of "Dragon" which was their word for a modern dinosaur was "An extremely rare, but still existing creature..."

Additionally, highly conservative (no pun intended) estimates put the number of animals on the ark at 2,000, with more typical examples ranging to around 20,000 animals of a variety of kinds, with wildly different nutritional requirements. Noah took only eight people with him, right? How did they take care of all those critters? For comparison's sake, the Bronx Zoo has 4000 animals of 650 species, and has over a hundred employees just to handle the animals. Assuming that all of Noah's clan picked up exotic animal handling, pulled double shifts, and was just generally more competent than modern man, they still wouldn't have to care for all of the animals, even if the arc was sitting on the ground instead of bucking around in the middle of a storm, which would presumably require bailing out thousands of gallons of water (like all pre-modern ships)

I presume Noah put food in front of them and let them eat it themselves. I don't know.

Additionally, creationists argue that there would be no need to take animals like fish onto the arc, because they could swim for themselves. However, the deepsea is host to a horde of specialized creatures that depend on exacting micro-environments for their food and survival. For instance some fish require smooth, undisturbed river bottoms, while will die within moments if the watter presure surrounding them is too high or too low. These creatures are highly specialized, and don't have any less specialized relatives that they could have "micro-evolved" from after the flood. So how did they all survive?

Don't know. Perhaps the water was calm at the bottom. I dunno.

Dommy, you are aware that there are Muslim Creationists trying to prove almost exactly the same things you are, right? Granted the text is a little different, so they've got different problems (figuring out why Adam was 50 feet tall among them), but all the major details of Muslim and Christian creation stories line up.

Ah, interesting.

I was talking about the book which condoned: Homosexuals being executed and oppressed, the subjugation of women and condoned slavery; The bible.

It is unlikely the Bible actually intended that homosexuals be executed for sodomy. The more likely punishment was actually a fine

Though yes, Israel being the Chosen Nation, it was given stronger legal standards.

As for the slavery comment, slavery wasn't the same as it is today. More like indentured servitude.

The women comment was totally pulled from out of nowhere.

If the bible was correct he world would have a dome on top it but it does not

It did. That dome of water was where much of the Flood water came from.

 

[Lone Wolf]

In that case, how did animals get to their respective continents, in highly distinct patterns (modern marsupials in Auatralia for instance) that mimic the results predicted and confirms by biologists? And why did all dinosaurs (apart from birds) go extinct?

"Well, I guess they did it all somehow. I don't know and I don't care - the Bible is God's Word".

 

[Miles Teg]

Well, I don't buy Uniformatarian theory, so I don't believe just because the continents are currently moving a certain speed means they were always moving that speed. I believe that the effects of the Flood made them move faster.

You do understand that simple physics tell us that speeding up tectonic action enough to move the continents from a Pangaea-like position into their modern state in even a few hundred years would release enough energy to boil the seas and steam cook Noah's Ark like a pack of veggies, right?

I presume Noah put food in front of them and let them eat it themselves. I don't know.

They still have to be fed every couple of days or so. I presume they disposed of their own wastes too, right?

As for Dinosaurs, it has to do with temperature changes after the Flood, though I do believe there are a few left. In the 1500's they definitely existed (At the time, the definition of "Dragon" which was their word for a modern dinosaur was "An extremely rare, but still existing creature..."

If dinosaurs all died out due to the temperature (again, excepting birds), why are reptiles and other ectotherms around?

More like indentured servitude

Indentured servitude isn't a good thing dude. Maybe God could have mentioned this while he was talking about not mixing fabrics?

It did. That dome of water was where much of the Flood water came from.

Explain. (Or link. I'm flexible)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yes I agree. But then so should evolution.

No, because evolution does have the ingredients needed for science. And closing your eyes, placing your hands over your ears and going "la la la I won't listen and I won't look at it so it doesn't exist" won't make that go away.

You should say: yes I agree, but I don't believe that science works, so teach your precious evolution in science classes, we will teach what I believe to be true in religious classes.

And all will be well.

 

[GhostWriter16]

You do understand that simple physics tell us that speeding up tectonic action enough to move the continents from a Pangaea-like position into their modern state in even a few hundred years would release enough energy to boil the seas and steam cook Noah's Ark like a pack of veggies, right?

Well, I've never heard that. Though I never said absolutely that there was Pangea, nor did I say a few hundred years. I would probably say a couple of thousand (Also note, I believe the Earth was between 8 and 12 thousand years old, NOT 6,000.)

They still have to be fed every couple of days or so. I presume they disposed of their own wastes too, right?

Maybe they just left the wastes there I don't know.

As for how often they'd have to be fed, that would no doubt depend on the animal.

If dinosaurs all died out due to the temperature (again, excepting birds), why are reptiles and other ectotherms around?

Well, there's also the lifetimes back then, which were longer. But also, I do believe a few smaller dinosaurs may be left.

 

[useless]

"Well, I guess they did it all somehow. I don't know and I don't care - the Bible is God's Word".

This is literally his entire argument for creationism

 

[Behind The Mask]

Well, there's also the lifetimes back then, which were longer. But also, I do believe a few smaller dinosaurs may be left.

Loch Ness Monster...

Cause come on, if you're spouting all this dung you keep going on about I really have no doubt that you'd believe in that.

 

[Miles Teg]

Well, I've never heard that. Though I never said absolutely that there was Pangea, nor did I say a few hundred years. I would probably say a couple of thousand (Also note, I believe the Earth was between 8 and 12 thousand years old, NOT 6,000.)

Why don't you believe in the literal truth of the Bible on this issue?

Maybe they just left the wastes there I don't know.

As for how often they'd have to be fed, that would no doubt depend on the animal.

They were on the Ark for over a year. Also, if God put the animals in a position to sit starving in their own feces for that long, he's an animal abuser, and thus not omni-benevolent.

Well, there's also the lifetimes back then, which were longer. But also, I do believe a few smaller dinosaurs may be left.

Leaving aside the cryptozoology, what does lifespan have to do with dinosaurs? While it can be presumed that the big ones took a while to grow, the chicken-sized ones presumably had lifespans roughly comparable to, y'know, chickens.

 

[GhostWriter16]

Why don't you believe in the literal truth of the Bible on this issue?

Geneaologies back then were done skipping generations. It was common.

A "Day" however, means 24 hours. If it didn't, the Bible fails since apparently the plants lived without the sun for a long period of time.

They were on the Ark for over a year. Also, if God put the animals in a position to sit starving in their own feces for that long, he's an animal abuser, not a good god.

I said how often depends on the animal. Lions for instance, can go like a year without eating. He may have given them large amounts of meat and just left them.

As for feces, I have no idea what they did about that.

Leaving aside the cryptozoology, what does lifespan have to do with dinosaurs? While it can be presumed that the big ones took a while to grow, the chicken-sized ones presumably had lifespans roughly comparable to, y'know, chickens.

And some of them probably still exist, just very rarely.

 

[Behind The Mask]

And some of them probably still exist, just very rarely.

Having a tea party with Big Foot, the Mongolian Death Worm and a Fair and Balanced Fox News I'm guessing?