Evidence for creationism, Part 2.

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Well, that's where you'd have to use Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation that fits the evidence will probably be the correct one. Now, out of the three possibilities you give, which do you think is the simplest? The possibility that our theories are wrong/incomplete or the equipment was faulty/we measured it wrong or it's a glitch in the universal simulator?

And the second one's unlikely as that would mean several groups' equipment was faulty or it was read wrong if the evidence was presented in a peer-reviwed journal.
 
Well, that's where you'd have to use Occam's Razor - the simplest explanation that fits the evidence will probably be the correct one. Now, out of the three possibilities you give, which do you think is the simplest? The possibility that our theories are wrong/incomplete or the equipment was faulty/we measured it wrong or it's a glitch in the universal simulator?

And the second one's unlikely as that would mean several groups' equipment was faulty or it was read wrong if the evidence was presented in a peer-reviwed journal.

But Occam's razor is probablistic. I am not denying that the probability of a fault in the theory is many many orders of magnitude greater than the probabilaty that we are living in a universe simulator. The universe simulator idea is one competing hypothesis indicated by this evidence, and one that makes predictions that differ from the "we do not understand this process" hypothesis.
 
You'd need a computer bigger than the universe to simulate it...
 
You'd need a computer bigger than the universe to simulate it...

Not if you do not need to simulate it exactly, you only need to simulate it to the level that we can detect. The idea being that our ability to measure the universe is approaching the accuracy of the simulation.
 
Surely this is evidence that one of the 3 things is true (poor theory, poor measurements, universe simulator and probably more). So it is evidence for all 3? I guess this is a question of semantics, but that was my understanding of the word "evidence".

No it is simply evidence for one of them, most probably the one of our theories being faulty in some shape or form, a thing that we actually do know.
 
quoted from the journal of creation

Some butterflies, such as the blue morpho (Morpho menelaus) of South America and the male mountain blue don (Papilio ulysses) of northern Australia are known for their brilliant iridescent blues. But their spectacular colours are not caused by pigments but by their scales forming a diffraction grating. These are evenly-spaced ridges or grooves that break up white light into all its component colours, but at a given angle, destructive interference cancels out all out except for the required colour, which is intense due to constructive interference. These scales have been called sub-micrometre photonic structures, because they can manipulate light waves. The very deep black on the borders of the butterfly wings is likewise not due to a black pigment but due to photonic structures that trap light.2,3

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This research has inspired the design of very effective ‘Super Black’ coatings, and might inspire other sorts of coatings that produce striking colours without the chemical waste in production of pigments and dyes. This is yet another example of biomimetics: human technology copying nature—in reality, taking lessons from the Designer of nature

220px-Papilio_ulysses_ambiguus_Rothschild%2C_1895.JPG
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in order for this butterfly to evolve it must have know all the the properties of the Electromagnetic spectrum(light) beforehand. there is No Way this could have evolved through genetic mistakes over millions of years. Since you guys say the facts speak for themselves then this fact screams of an all knowing designer.
 
I think we need a facepalm emoticon. Can somebody talk to Thunderfall about that?
 
An organism need not understand or even be capable of understanding an advantage it has for it to be manifested as an increase in survival probability.

I don't see how you can possibly see that as a stronger argument for your case.

An advantage need not be understood by its owner, it just needs to increase the chance of mating and producing offspring.

Or do birds need to understand advanced aerodynamics to fly as well?
 
Saying "Oh it's too complicated!" isn't really a scientific argument.
 
An organism need not understand or even be capable of understanding an advantage it has for it to be manifested as an increase in survival probability.

I don't see how you can possibly see that as a stronger argument for your case.

An advantage need not be understood by its owner, it just needs to increase the chance of mating and producing offspring.

Or do birds need to understand advanced aerodynamics to fly as well? Or kangaroos to understand general relativity to jump against the force of gravity?

good question how could birds through random mutations gain the ability to fly
 
Evolution does not occur because I species "wants" to change, not does it occur as some great developing hand guiding all species of life towards some "pinnacle of progress". Evolution is blind.
 
Evolution does not occur because I species "wants" to change, not does it occur as some great developing hand guiding all species of life towards some "pinnacle of progress". Evolution is blind.

please explain how a "blind" process produced such beautiful patterns on a butterfly.
 
please explain how a "blind" process produced such beautiful patterns on a butterfly.


beauty now? really?

That's as lame as saying rainbows are proof of god or the look on a child's face or any of that lame cliche stuff.
 
the beauty of a tapeworm proves god must exist
 
quoted from the journal of creation
This research has inspired the design of very effective ‘Super Black’ coatings, and might inspire other sorts of coatings that produce striking colours without the chemical waste in production of pigments and dyes. This is yet another example of biomimetics: human technology copying nature—in reality, taking lessons from the Designer of nature

in (sic) order for this butterfly to evolve it must have know (sic) all the the properties of the Electromagnetic spectrum(light) beforehand. there (sic) is No Way this could have evolved through genetic mistakes over millions of years. Since you guys say the facts speak for themselves then this fact screams of an all knowing designer.

I'm not bothering to quote the rest as it has nothing to do with proving or disproving creation (it is simply a description of the mechanics of butterfly colour pigmentation) I've bolded the most ridiculuously stupid points made in the post.

1) This is what is known in the business as an unwarranted assumption. Of course we may have taken inspiration (I'm not well read enough on the specifics to be certain), we do that a lot. But then to ass-u-me that it is a proof of creation, with no way of getting from a to b is the height of laziness, stupidity and bad thinking. Magicfan if these are the people you look up to you need to find better role models, these people are simply taking you for a ride.

2) No need to know the Electromagnetic spectrum. Natural selection will hit on the best colour very quickly. Either a) the colour is perfect for hiding the butterfly from potential predators, b) it makes the butterfly look unappetising to potential predators, or c) it makes potential mates more likely to choose a butterfly with such a colour scheme. Every single one of those choices gives you a butterfly more likely to have progeny, and thus pass on the genes which select that colour scheme. Over time the increased mating success of butterflies will kill off all other types of butterfly in the species which carry a different colour scheme. No knowledge of the electromagnetic spectrum is required.
P.S. I'm certain also that everybody here who is opposing your viewpoint knows what the ES is. We actually have scientific knowledge.

3) Unwarranted assumption. This shows your total ignorance of natural selection (examples of how it works I've cited in no. 2) above), and also shows that you maintain the mistaken assumption that the world is a static system, where nothing changes and no outside forces impinge on species at all. This assumption is so obviously wrong that I'm flabbergasted that you still cling to it. Just look outside the window and you will see so much evidence which point to the obviousness of the world being a dynamic system.


Again, and again, and again you post stuff which you think proves creation, and again, and again, and again it takes no time or effort to show you where exactly you have gone wrong in your "proof" and how it nullifies creation as a valid theory and actually counts as evidence for Evolution! Are you not getting tired of being constantly proved wrong, and making yourself look very foolish in the process.

@Seon here you go:
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{IMG]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/49805/Facepalm.png[/IMG}
 
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