Evil Atheist Thread

[Swedishguy]

I could live with that. Added that I believe it's pretty darn unlikely that those reasons exist. edit: As unlikely as for instance being given reasons to believe in the existance of Thor.

Did I just walk into a semantics trap?

edit: Oh shoot! This thing has 14 pages allready.

Thor exists.

 

[brennan]

Why do you shake your head sadly? Do you really prefer living a lie to honesty? I understand it may be hard, but pretending to be something you're not doesn't strike me as the best solution.

It strikes me as the only option they have if they are not to become seriously ****ed up by the approbrium of their families. I think 'hard' is a serious understatement.

 

[IglooDame]

Why do you shake your head sadly? Do you really prefer living a lie to honesty? I understand it may be hard, but pretending to be something you're not doesn't strike me as the best solution.

I think it was the impression you gave that you don't see what would be difficult about "coming out of the closet" as an atheist.

From what I've read, there is a sort of theistic equivalent to racism in the United States, obviously more or less intense in some areas than others. It is both easier to avoid because, unlike skin color, ethnicity (by and large), or gender, one can fairly easily "pass" as a Christian or Jew by simply avoiding the subject where possible, and if worst comes to worst, showing up at a church and mouthing the songs every Sunday. But on the flip side, folks that would quite readily disbelieve any statement like "all blacks are criminally-minded" or "all Asians are really smart" might believe that all atheists are immoral psychopaths, because they've made a conscious choice to reject God - and there may be little to disavow them of that, since they assume anyone they meet is Christian unless shown/told otherwise.

If you extend that to relatives, friends, co-workers, employers, customers... it can become a wedge that gets in the way a lot. You've probably seen a bit of a tint of this yourself, as Mormonism hasn't been very well understood, but you can fall back on "no, it really is based in Christianity" and besides believing in something (and so just being a little misguided) is to many people way better than believing in nothing.

 

[Angst]

Thor exists.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

It's true, actually, I think a lot of families would react the same way to their children "coming out" as atheists or as Mormons. But if your parents love you enough that it is worth preserving your relationship with them, then they will still love you no matter what. I still think it is preferable to pretending to be something you are not, and taking part in rituals in which you do not believe.

And what of your own children? Either you have to make them go to Sunday School or something, so your parents don't catch on, or hide it from them, or make them also lie to their grandparents, or something.

 

[warpus]

It's true, actually, I think a lot of families would react the same way to their children "coming out" as atheists or as Mormons. But if your parents love you enough that it is worth preserving your relationship with them, then they will still love you no matter what. I still think it is preferable to pretending to be something you are not, and taking part in rituals in which you do not believe.

I agree with Eran here... Even though I do not kids should take this approach until they are .. I don't know.. 16? 17?

 

[brennan]

I think the question is, will your parents still love you if you reject God? And even if they do, do you know it? are you emotionally strong enough to deal with that at 17 or 18?

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, if you are mature enough to reach an informed decision on religion, you should be. And if not at that age, you need to tell them sooner or later.

 

[brennan]

Ah yes, you need to be mature to be an atheist... but religion accepts you as soon as you are conceived! (lucky you) /snide

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Well, if you are raised in one religion or lack thereof, it generally takes some maturity to make a real, sincere decision to change to another. Equally, if a child is raised atheist, I would not expect them to be able to truly convert to a religion without at least some level of maturity.

 

[warpus]

I think the question is, will your parents still love you if you reject God? And even if they do, do you know it? are you emotionally strong enough to deal with that at 17 or 18?

I would hope so.. If not, you're not cut out for life.

And neither are parents that would do something like that...

 

[Trajan12]

Going by what I see, I'm thankful I have a somewhat reasonable parent. I would suggest to the average person not coming out bout atheism until they're at least old enough to find somewhere to live by themselves...it's happened...

And I don't really want to hear the "if they love you" bull. Cause perfectly happy parents do kick their kids out or abuse them for things like being gay. So I never put anything past anybody.

 

[IglooDame]

Well, if you are raised in one religion or lack thereof, it generally takes some maturity to make a real, sincere decision to change to another. Equally, if a child is raised atheist, I would not expect them to be able to truly convert to a religion without at least some level of maturity.

Replace "religion" with "gender preference", it makes for interesting comparisons...

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Replace "religion" with "gender preference", it makes for interesting comparisons...

I think there is a fundamental difference between the two, though.

 

[brennan]

I would hope so.. If not, you're not cut out for life.

And neither are parents that would do something like that...

Yeah, unfortunately a large number of people are sadly not cut out for life...

As Trajan12 puts it:

And I don't really want to hear the "if they love you" bull. Cause perfectly happy parents do kick their kids out or abuse them for things like being gay. So I never put anything past anybody.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

There is a difference between "perfectly happy" and "loving" parents, I think.

 

[El_Machinae]

Well, there's also the hassle component. I found my family to be a terrible hassle about the entire issue when I first started rejecting their religion. I had to balance that hassle with just going to church.

In some ways, it's kinda like pretending to like your mom's "secret family" casserole.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Except dealing with something a lot more important.

 

[El_Machinae]

Not really. While having to be a bit dishonest sucks (ideally you wouldn't need to be), there's no requirement to be really forward about your religious views if you're going to get persecuted for them (or hurt someone's feelings). The blame can be spread around on that one. The parallel to sexual orientation was pretty good.

Plus, our casserole has plenty good history.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

As I said, the parallel breaks down once you start pretending to do things in which you don't believe, such as communion. regardless of who should have ultimate blame, as long as you are willingly being dishonest, some of that is on you. if no one ever asks, fine, but if to maintain the facade you pretend to be a churchgoer, or whatever, I don't find that honest.