EX? - War? What is it good for?

[T-hawk]

I might suggest moving Blue Dot one SE. It can handle the overlap, and by being there, it can reach one plains to work until it gets some jungle cleared. (Unless founding on the blue dot reaches a whale resource that we haven't seen yet.)

Red circle is a great site. It can work 4 plains that Delhi won't even need until hospitals.

Don't forget that Ganges can also build workers; we need some.

Also, SJ Frank, it's usually better to post shots in JPEG format; your picture is 390 KB while mine is 62 KB.

 

[Exsanguination]

Oh, I forgot to give my thoughts on the dotmap . Red dot is a good site. Blue dot is what I am worried about. Would it not be more useful to settle the spices now rather than later, and risk having the Germans steal them? Not only are we cramped like hell, we KNOW Bizzy is thinking about those spices. *If* we are to settle the current blue dot, I agree with T-Hawk that it should be moved one tile SE. That site and a site 2 N, 1 NE (on the coast) from SJ's blue dot for the spices would make a good layout for the jungle cities, IMHO.

 

[T-hawk]

Actually, it's not always a bad idea to let the other guy make the first move when claiming resources, when you're religious and they aren't. If they settle with a resource in the second ring of squares, we can steal it by settling with it in first ring, as we did with the furs. If they settle with it in first ring, we can do the same, and whip our temple before the other city gets any culture. If we settle first, with a resource in second-ring, the other guy can steal it by settling with it in first-ring. (The AI doesn't think of doing so, but stumbles into it occasionally.)

Besides, Calcutta has already claimed two spices in second-ring.

I would go N-N-N rather than N-N-NE from the revised blue dot, but that will depend on the shape of the lands farther afield to tell for sure.

 

[Exsanguination]

Originally posted by T-hawk
I would go N-N-N rather than N-N-NE from the revised blue dot, but that will depend on the shape of the lands farther afield to tell for sure.

That's the same site I suggested . I was saying N-N-NE of the original (SJ Frank's) blue dot. Great minds think alike, no?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

And in the nick of time, it seems. This was the last school week before a week of vacation here in norway, so I had an extra sh*tload of homework. I got it now though.

 

[Exsanguination]

Good to see you back, Mesoy .

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Heh, no wars yet.

Mahatma Erik Mesoy rises to command the peaceful Indian people.

Umm... Babs, Greeks, Persians, and Germans all have Iron, Writing, Horseback.
I really want some tech here. They seem to have Mapmaking too.

I make a note to myself, Ganges will riot the turn after next.
Why is Bombay building Granary? It should be on workers. Was the plan wait for size 4 and whip twice for granary? Nahh. I switch to spearman. Our military is not paper thin, it's wet paper with holes in.

Bwtween turns: Largest nations! We are #2, with Persia no 1. Germany 3rd, zulu last.

1:1600 bc. Move the spear into calcutta, there are german archers and warriors there. Move the warrior to scout.
Check on Ganges. It will riot unless i put lux tax up, and it will grow way too big. So i set one scientist.
Dispatch worker to do stuff around Madras and Calcutta.

2:1575 bc. Spear produced in Bombay, I send it off to Ganges to guard the settler coming there. Worker started. Whip the barracks in calcutta, it has exactly 20 shields left.

between: I spot about 5 german units moving around in the north. ANd the babs have a spear wandering around hamburg. are they at war?

3:1550 bc. Barracks finished in madras, spear started. Whale spotted. Lahore founded on blue dot. Temple started.

4:1525 bc. Ganges builds settler, starts another. Delhi builds barracks, starts spear. I spot a barb SOD marching on a bab camp, err bab sod marching on a barb camp! Our ppl want forbidden palace.
Germany seems to be at war with babylon.
I try to buy maps.
For wmap:
Hammy wants wmap, 66 gold and 5 gpt.
Xman wants wmap, 66 gold and 2 gpt.
Bismarck wants wmap, 66 gold and 1 gpt.
greece does not have mapmaking.

I buy world map from Bismarck for World map, 3 gpt and 9 gold. Paying gpt is our insurance in case he attacks us. We now have 57 gold, running +6 a turn.
The wmap bought seems to be german area map, bab tmap, persian tmap and greek tmap. I notice a lone horse up north.

5:1500 bc. Culture expansion at Ganges. The babs have 3 warriors marching towards calcutta, so i buy writing on gpt there. wmap, 5gpt and 18 gold.

Then i establish embassy in germany. They are building Oracle, complete in 15 turns.

6:1475 bc. I fall asleep.

7:1450 bc. Kill a barb outside Lahore. The barbs have a camp on site north of blue dot. we dont have the manpower to drive them out, so the spear/settler is redirected up towards that horse tile.

Between turns: Babs declare war on germany.

8:1425 bc. I take a nap.

9: 1400 bc. Ganges builds settler, starts the colossus.

10: 1375 bc. Delhi builds spear. Starts worker. Calcutta builds warrior, start worker. Our furs are hooked up, so i turn down lux tax a notch. Bombay builds worker, start another. The germans keep moving their troops through our territory, they have disrupted ganges twice, so i ask them politely to *GET THEIR FAT BUTTOCKS AWAY FROM OUR SACRED LAND OF PEACE*, Thank You. Or else decalre war. He does not declare war. His troops were moved to Hamburg.
We are running 6gpt a turn plus, and have 37 banked gold.

Please move the settler and spear up to the tile above the horse, it can grab 2 whales and a horse. Very useful. If we can deny our enemies horses, or iron, we will see no knights. That would make it a lot easier to defend with pikes.

There is a brab camp on blue dot, send a settler and 2 other units to disperse it.

Keep a settler around hamburg, it might get razed by the babs.

 

[Exsanguination]

Originally posted by Erik Mesoy
It will riot unless i put lux tax up, and it will grow way too big. So i set one scientist.

I don't mean to make this a TDG (which I definitely NOT qualified to do ), but a scientist? tsk tsk! Where was the lux tax? Unless it was at 50 or 60%, raise it! We are not researching, so why fiddle around as such? The production and food extracted from an extra laborer is worth the gold it costs to turn up the lux tax.

The germans keep moving their troops through our territory, they have disrupted ganges twice, so i ask them politely to *GET THEIR FAT BUTTOCKS AWAY FROM OUR SACRED LAND OF PEACE*, Thank You. Or else decalre war. He does not declare war. His troops were moved to Hamburg.

Oh, big, BIG no-no. Might I remind you:

*We cannot ask the AI to leave our borders

You may have missed that in your absence, so I can tolerate it. But never again! (I reccomend you go back and reread much of the thread since you missed a lot of the new discussions that went on in your leave). Otherwise, good turn. Did we get any techs?

I looked at the save-game file myself and I am urged to offer commentary. Why is Ganges, of ALL cities building the Colossus? That is our settler factory! It should be producing settlers and workers! Luckily its only been going for two turns. There is no problem with building the Colossus, but Ganges is NOT the city to do so in. Also, something happened real bad with the tech realm (I don't blame you or anyone, just something went wrong...). We are behind by SIX techs (I have never been behind by that far... even in an Emperor game) - Map Making, Iron Working, Mathematics, Horseback Riding, Philosophy, CoL. I thought I'd give the next player a heads up on that. IMHO, right now it looks like we have two priorities: land-grabbing, and research. It may be profitable to go on our own; I don't know how long it will take to research, but it would be at fifth civ prices. It may be cheaper to just buy.

Sorry for the lecture, but I felt compelled to mention these things. The Colossus is the real bugger for me, sorry.

Ex >> ON DECK
T-Hawk
SJ Frank
Erik Mesoy
Zarth >> UP NOW

Good luck, Zarth!

--Ex

 

[T-hawk]

Demanding the AI leave is against our variant restrictions.

Please read the first post in the thread when you are going to play in a variant SG.

edit: heh, Ex slipped his post in before I hit Submit

Game note - We're close to Polytheism on the minimum research, right? Pray that we get it first. If we do, it's good to trade for 4 or 5 techs.

 

[SJ Frank]

I would post a new screenshot if I could find a software that converts BMPs into JPEGs. Anybody know of a free/share ware that I could download?

On dotmaps: if we build FP in Calcutta, all the cities around it will be first ring, thus, there isn't an urgent need to pack cities too closely. Also, unlike most games that are usually won or lost before hospitals, our game will last into the modern ages. So, thinking extremely long term, big, full size cities might be a good idea for this game.

The best location for the spice-grabing cities is actually where the barb camp currently sits, since it will have the whale in range along with much less over lap. However, I think this site is safe to settle for later. All we need is three units to blockade an AI settler pair indefinitely; we have enough units in the area for that purpose. We just need to be alert about not letting our two spare warriors wander off too far, especially on the Babylonian front.

My vote would be to send the settler near the barb camp to found a city directly SOUTH of the horses. I believe that's the only site with both coast and fresh water, and it reserves the little peninsula north of the horses for a little fishing village later.

The spice site could be grabbed with a new settler trained out of the capital. It will take about 4 turns to build the new settler, and about 7 turns to reach the city site. I think we have enough units in the area to delay any AI settler pair by 11 turns.

There is currently another settler just north of the capital. I'd suggest sending him to grab the land east of Calcutta. The hill SE of the gold mountains is a good spot. It's on a hill, has fresh water, and establishes border with the Babylonians. Or, we could settle further south along the river, closer to Hamberg, which should give us a realistic chance at flipping Hamberg.

I wouldn't be too worried about lagging behind in tech. This game will be won or lost in the modern ages. All we need to do is catch up before then. It doesn't matter if we do it in the Ancient ages or the Industrial ages.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Ganges building Colossus: We were PAPER THIN on military to send with those settlers. SO i thought building the colossus would give us some time to build spears. Only 2 turns of production have been done, it can be changed to settler with no waste.

Scientist: It was for one turn. This saved money as I:
A. Did not have to put lux tax up.
B. Could lower science spending for 1 turn.
I can see your point of view too, but i did nothing that cannot be justified.

Asking germany to leave: I forgot that one totally! I read the rules, and I remembered the restrictions on spy and embassy use, I remembered to build no forts, but that one slipped my mind. Sorry.

The min sci: We have maybe 6 turns left. Yeah, I use that too. Research CB, Mysti, then min sci on Poly. Sometimes i run min sci on monarchy too that way.

 

[Zarth]

Alright it's my turn. I'll get to it as soon as i can.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Originally posted by SJ Frank
I would post a new screenshot if I could find a software that converts BMPs into JPEGs. Anybody know of a free/share ware that I could download?

PSP 3.1 (Paint Shop Pro)

you may be able to get it for free at their website, company named JASC

 

[Zarth]

1. 1375BC.
I change Colossus in Ganges to settler. Ganges was our settler-factory.

2. 1350BC.
We will discover polytheism in one turn.

BETWEEN TURNS: Greece declares war on Persia!

3. 1325 BC.
Continue moving the settler+spear towards the location south of the horses.
Trade Polytheism for Map making+Code of Law+Horseback+3gold with Bismarck
Trade Polytheism for World map+philosophy+3gold with Alex
Trade Polytheism for worker+iron working+24gold with Xerxes
Trade Polytheism for math+25gold with hammurabi

We have a map of our enire island now. Our science advisor reports that we are technologically advanced!

There is incense north of Babylonian land. I will try to get it.

4. 1300BC.
Delhi finished worker. Start spearman.

5. 1275BC.
Ganges finishes Settler. Start Galley. The settlers will be moving with ganges' spear towards the north. The galley will pick them up later.
Madras finishes Spear. Start settler. Spear wil go to Bombay. warrior from bombay will go to Ganges.
I destroy the barbarian camp near the spices.
Karachi founded. South of the horses. Start temple.

BETWEEN TURNS: hammurabi wants territory map + 25gold. We will give him what het wants.

6. 1250BC
Bombay finishes worker. start another worker.
Spear reaches Bombay. Warrior departs towards Ganges.

7. 1225 BC.
Colhapur founded. Start temple.
Switch Calcutta to temple.
I see a german setller+warrior who seem to be heading to the spices. I will try to keep them away with two of our warriors.
Hurry galley in ganges.

BETWEEN TURNS: Babylon and Persia have signed a military alliance against Greece. Babylon declared war on greece.

8. 1200BC.
The loyal citizens of Hamburg have overthrown their oppressors and have pledged allegiance to us! They yearn to be with us. Hamburg is now ours. We start building a temple.
Ganges finishes galley. Start another one.

BETWEEN TURNS: Babylon and Germany have signed a peace treaty. German setller+warrior go to the east. they seem not to be heading for the spices anymore.

9. 1175BC.
Lahore finishes temple. Start worker.
Bangalore finishes temple. Start settler
Settler+spear move onto the galley.

10. 1150BC - nothing important

11. 1125BC
Germans start building The Pyramids. Germans have completed the oracle in Berlin.
Delhi finished Spear. Start The Pyramids.
Hurry temple in Calcutta.

12. 1100BC
Persians are building TheGreat Library
Germans are building The Pyramids
Madras finishes Settler. Start Granary
Calcutta finishes temple. Start granary

13. 1075BC
Luxuries to 20%
Babylonians are building the Great Library.
Ganges finishese Galley. Start settler.
Bombay finishes worker. Start settler
Galley leaves ganges with two workers in it.

14. 1050BC
Lahore finishes worker. start granary

15. 1025BC
Galley reaches the incense. Spear+settler unload.
We also have a spear+settler two squares east of Calcutta.

Chandragupta-1025BC

 

[Erik Mesoy]

KARACHI IS IN THE WRONG SPOT!!!

Please move the settler and spear up to the tile above the horse, it can grab 2 whales and a horse. Very useful. If we can deny our enemies horses, or iron, we will see no knights. That would make it a lot easier to defend with pikes.

I said that last time. Karachi should have been 2 tiles to the north, where it would grab 2 whales. Ok, found a fishing village 2 tiles north of karachi, but...

Edit:
Also, our two cities with barracks are making Pyramids and Granary. They should be on vet spears, or are you waiting with BUILDING defense until pikes?

Heh, I broke the rules, but you also made some mistakes.

 

[Exsanguination]

I wouldn't say that at all Mesoy. He played an excellent turn. Right now we have to pull a bit of a farmer's gambit to grab some land. As far as I am concerned, one spear per city is sufficient enough (2 in a couple wouldn't hurt). But it isn't a life or death thing. If you focus on military too much early on, you lose the economic edge that throws you ahead of the AI in the middle medieval to early industrial times.

As for Karachi, if it grabs fresh water (which I believe SJ said it would have) its much better. A fishing city two tiles north on the plains tile that would never be worked anyhow is MUCH better than just a city on that tile. I played that exact routine with my capital once and that fishing city became the commerce capital of the world (w/o Colossus).

We were PAPER THIN on military to send with those settlers. SO i thought building the colossus would give us some time to build spears. Only 2 turns of production have been done, it can be changed to settler with no waste.

What? How would the Colossus help us with spears ? If you mean kill time in the most productive city we have, might I ask where your head is?

Good turn, Zarth . Looking at that trade with Polytheism almost made me drop to the floor. It barely devalued at all!

Ex >> UP NOW
T-Hawk >> ON DECK
SJ Frank
Erik Mesoy
Zarth

Got it.

 

[Exsanguination]

1025 - Oooh... there is barb camp near our incesne spot. I hope that Bab spearman is off to disperse it. I scan the area for a good place to find our gold city, but the best spot is a mountain . WM + 105g to Bizzy for Literature.

1000 - Jaipur founded on the spot to grab the incense. Immediately set to temple.

975 - Ganges builds settler, on to temple. I will probably rush it when it grows. I don't think Germany has any workers; their lands are quite bare.

950 -

(I) - Greeks ask for an RoP and an MA vs the Babs. Hell no! Bizzy wants our world map. I don't know if he knows the world yet, so I decline and give him our territory map.

925 - Hyderabad founded NE of Calcutta on the flood plains. Temple rushed in Ganges.

900 - Ganges temple -> settler. I sacrifice a galley to attempt contacts with the other world, probably won't make it. Spices are online! Luxes down 10%.

(I) - Persia and Greece are now at peace. Persepolis finishes the Pyramids. Germans cascade to GL and the other GL.

875 - Our galley has survived, but it looks like it may have found a dead end. Delhi switched to GL. Everyone but X-Man has Construction, and he and Alex lack Literature. I wait for the price to drop a bit (or for us to get a bit more cash) before buying it. Monarchy comes in 22 turns.

850 - We lose our galley .

825 - Ganges builds a settler, on to spearman; Bangalore builds settler, on to galley. Persians are building the GL. I send Bangalore's settler through German territory (allowed) with an escort to try and find a nice fishing city at their southern border.

800 - Bengal founded SE of Calcutta on a river. These three cities (Calcutta, Hyderabad, Bengal) are relatively close in relation to our other cities, but I think they are all in good spots. They isn't too much overlap.

Literature, WM, 224g, 2gpt to Alex for Construction. Wow, he's already betrayed X-Man :ak47:

Our new cities:

Settler/warrior on its way into Germany:

I honestly am not sure whether I picked the best spots for the new cities this turn, but I used my best judgement. I think the three cities based around Calcutta, with Hamburg, will put good cultural pressure on Gordium. We are flying ahead in culture.

The galley in Bangalore is to ferry a couple settlers over to that mini-island a get a couple cities there. It looks like we'll probably get the GL, judging by the cities the AI are building their's in, but it may be tight with Persepolis. But we need to take advantage of the fact that Greece and Babylon (I think ) are still at war with someone, and thus we must grab all the land we can NOw - we can't take any later.

T-Hawk is up. Good luck.

EX - No more War.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

I really have to stop this habit of shooting my mouth off...

Building colossus to kill time to help with spears, I was thinking: "Get a wonder, get some spears to help defense, nice plan." Where WAS my head???

Is karachi on fresh water? Didnt notice. If it is, I retract ALL comments about that. I was thinking "Far from the capital, fishing village, 2 whales, get the whales."

But as for farmer's gambit, Pyramids?? When we have a barracks there? That barracks has given out 1 vet spear. We could have sold it afterwards, if we really are building pyramids there.

/me realizez that I have been shooting my mouth off again...

*slaps self*
/me slaps my mouth real HARD.

 

[T-hawk]

I was all ready again to point out that a Colossus doesn't get you spears, but Ex beat me to it again

The loyal citizens of Hamburg have overthrown their oppressors and have pledged allegiance to us! They yearn to be with us. Hamburg is now ours. We start building a temple.

Hah! Was hoping my Madras play would result in that

And if we're going to get the GL, why'd we pay so much for Construction? Although I actually doubt we will; these are Emperor opponents and they cascaded at least a little bit.

Got it, will play after RBE2.

 

[Exsanguination]

Actually, our only threat for the GL is Persepolis, like I said. Nineveh is a size 1 city, and Berlin is horribly underdeveloped. Persepolis is also rather underdeveloped, but it has size over delhi. Why did I buy Construction? 1) We have 70 turns to go on the GL, and 2) I wanted Colosseums. We may as well play a cultural push, since cultural is off and thus we don't have to worry about kicking off a cultural victory.

these are Emperor opponents and they cascaded at least a little bit.

Berlin was the only cascade . I'm not saying it won't be tight, but I am confident. If we mine all the hills surrounding Delhi, we should be able to get it.