Experimental Graphical features

Thunderbrd · Dec 9, 2015

They shouldn't require a new dll. Nothing has been done in the dll to address any adjustments there so far. There WILL be some projects to work on in the dll with those... more in mapscripting though which is python and has to do with setting maps up so if you're only map BUILDING then it shouldn't be a problem there at all either.

However, there is a large volume of work to do in the xml to address them... not sure how much of it has been done yet.

Toffer90 · Dec 10, 2015

Thunderbrd said:
I think the mint green should be infused with some purplish tones to get the murk in there.

BTW, I like the terrains from what I've seen but it's really throwing me off that rocky is almost entirely gray while barren almost entirely dark ochre. I kinda miss the old coloration but I love the new texture on rocky. Some light tan and some ochre reddish tones infused into the gray scheme could liven up rocky a bit... it's not really supposed to be as 'dead' as barren imo.

Cool, some proper feedback. Sure, I'll spruce up rocky with some colors, and see what I can do about making barren a bit more varied. Thanks.

Harrier said:
@Toffer90.

Do your sea/ocean water terrains need a current .dll to work? If not what files would I need to copy (fpk, XML etc.). To get them to work with older versions of the .dll. I am not bothered by other .dll changes, I just want to be able to load your graphics and change/test things. I can then test with the latest .dll myself.

Same goes for the lake water changes, I believe DH did.

You will need to match the <Type> names from CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml in the terrain pack to the <ArtDefineTag> names in CIV4TerrainInfos.xml in v36.
Also you need to copy the entire block for TERRAIN_SEA twice, and rename them TERRAIN_POLAR_SEA and TERRAIN_TROPICAL_SEA which are missing terrains in v36.

For movement rules you will have to "win grep" v36 CIV4UnitInfos.xml with the same file in the SVN and fetch everything that looks like this:

Spoiler :

The above should be done for Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml and CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml as well.

To get sea terrain placed in random maps you would need to get the CvMapGeneratorUtil.py file from the SVN.

This is just the things I remember, there might be more...

Edit: Updated terrain pack
-Tweaked grass again
-Added some colors to rocky, probably not enough though. Will have to work more on that later.
-Made dunes more yellow/reddish instead of white.

Dancing Hoskuld · Dec 10, 2015

Toffer90 said:
The above should be done for Animals_CIV4UnitInfos.xml and CulturalUnits_CIV4UnitInfos.xml as well.

The animals should not get terrain passable by tech entries. The normal boats and rafts also need updating. Although rafts and canoes should never be able to enter Sea terrains (unless they are within cultural boarders) outriggers should.

Toffer90 · Dec 10, 2015

Dancing Hoskuld said:
The animals should not get terrain passable by tech entries. The normal boats and rafts also need updating. Although rafts and canoes should never be able to enter Sea terrains (unless they are within cultural boarders) outriggers should.

I only told him to copy over those lines if he found them in the SVN for any units. Of course he won't find the tech related movement rules when looking in our animalinfo.xml. ^^

I've already added movement rules for normal boats (and cultural boats) regarding the new water terrains; I might have missed something though.

Harrier · Dec 10, 2015

Toffer90 said:
I only told him to copy over those lines if he found them in the SVN for any units. Of course he won't find the tech related movement rules when looking in our animalinfo.xml. ^^

I've already added movement rules for normal boats (and cultural boats) regarding the new water terrains; I might have missed something though.

Just to be clear. I am not interested in any game play changes - regarding movement, attacks, or any thing else that may have been added or removed from the mod.

I just want to be able to use (place) the new graphics on older pre-made maps, using a version of the .dll dating back to May 2015.

As I believe these new graphic changes are not .dll dependent, what files do I need to change or copy to an older version of C2C.

When I have made the changes I want too, I will then load the map with the latest SVN to see how it plays.

To summarize - It is only the graphic changes - not the effect on gameplay.

Thanks.

Toffer90 · Dec 11, 2015

Harrier said:
Just to be clear. I am not interested in any game play changes - regarding movement, attacks, or any thing else that may have been added or removed from the mod.

I just want to be able to use (place) the new graphics on older pre-made maps, using a version of the .dll dating back to May 2015.

As I believe these new graphic changes are not .dll dependent, what files do I need to change or copy to an older version of C2C.

When I have made the changes I want too, I will then load the map with the latest SVN to see how it plays.

To summarize - It is only the graphic changes - not the effect on gameplay.

Thanks.

And here was my answer:

Toffer90 said:
You will need to match the <Type> names from CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml in the terrain pack to the <ArtDefineTag> names in CIV4TerrainInfos.xml in v36. (V35, whatever)
Also you need to copy the entire block for TERRAIN_SEA twice, and rename them TERRAIN_POLAR_SEA and TERRAIN_TROPICAL_SEA which are missing terrains in v36.

Harrier · Dec 11, 2015

Toffer90 said:
And here was my answer:

Yes, thanks, I gathered that. I just did not want to start a dialog about other possible changes.

Just have to get my hands even dirtier with XML again. :crazyeye:

Toffer90 · Dec 13, 2015

After updating my ATI graphics driver I finally got the white grid in water problem. It helped me figure out what texture that causes the problem.

Updated terrain pack with a tested fix for the white grid lines in the water plane, that can be seen with certain graphic drivers.
Reducing the resolution of CoastLandBlends.dds texture from 512x1024 → 128x256 made the issue barely noticeable when completely zoomed out with a field of view at 100.
The quality reduction is also barely noticeable while it improves performance somewhat.

JosEPh_II · Dec 13, 2015

So in game now the grid-lines will go back to being White instead of Black?

JosEPh

Toffer90 · Dec 13, 2015

JosEPh_II said:
So in game now the grid-lines will go back to being White instead of Black?

JosEPh

No. not that grid, the other one that was always visible as a graphical glitch in the entire water plane.

If it bothers you I guess I could make the grid you're thinking of white, but it won't be getting thin again without me increasing terrain textures by about 20MB

JosEPh_II · Dec 13, 2015

Toffer90 said:
No. not that grid, the other one that was always visible as a graphical glitch in the entire water plane.

If it bothers you I guess I could make the grid you're thinking of white, but it won't be getting thin again without me increasing terrain textures by about 20MB

No just curious is all. The Black grid lines are definitely more distinct on the land tiles. Just a matter of eye adjustment, getting used to it after 10+ years of white grid lines.

can still adapt to changes.......well most of time anyway. :blush:

JosEPh

colonelflag · Dec 14, 2015

Hey guys,

I'm finding Bamboo terrain type very hard to distinguish from plains terrain type. Is anyone else having this issue ?

Cheers
ColonelFlag

Toffer90 · Dec 14, 2015

colonelflag said:
Spoiler :

Hey guys,

I'm finding Bamboo terrain type very hard to distinguish from plains terrain type. Is anyone else having this issue ?

Cheers
ColonelFlag

Yeah, the bamboo feature will be reworked later for better visibility on both plains and grassland.

Harrier · Dec 14, 2015

Toffer90 said:
You will need to match the <Type> names from CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml in the terrain pack to the <ArtDefineTag> names in CIV4TerrainInfos.xml in v36.
Also you need to copy the entire block for TERRAIN_SEA twice, and rename them TERRAIN_POLAR_SEA and TERRAIN_TROPICAL_SEA which are missing terrains in v36.

This is just the things I remember, there might be more...

Ok, I downloaded latest SVN, checked it's CIV4TerrainInfos.xml against your CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml. So that <Type> and <ArtDefineTag> matched as you said. I also compared against my old version. (some strange differences there - i.e. rocky - rugged for one.)

But the SVN and your tags matched, (noticed you removed a lot of default value tags i.e. >0<). So copied both SVN CIV4TerrainInfos.xml and your terrain graphics changes to my old version of C2C (May) with the old .dll.

The map does load and I can access the new terrain graphics in WB. Also more importantly I can Shift-click on a tile that displays a box with all the features of that tile, so I can change it through drop down boxes etc.much more easierly, than clicking on a graphic and then on the map - mistake prone.

Thanks for that.

But some of the tiles in both main map and WB, just now display as Pink squares, overlapping other squares.

They tend to be less used terrains -such as Saltflats, Rocky, Scrub, Lush, Barren etc.

This of course can be a bit confusing. But if I have to, I can live with that.

Any clues what I need to do, to resolve this?

As this is specific to my use of WorldBuilder, using an older .dll (last May) - do not waste time on this, if you have not got a ready made answer.

Hope my post is not to confusing.

Thanks.

Toffer90 · Dec 14, 2015

Harrier said:
Spoiler :

Ok, I downloaded latest SVN, checked it's CIV4TerrainInfos.xml against your CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml. So that <Type> and <ArtDefineTag> matched as you said. I also compared against my old version. (some strange differences there - i.e. rocky - rugged for one.)

But the SVN and your tags matched, (noticed you removed a lot of default value tags i.e. >0<). So copied both SVN CIV4TerrainInfos.xml and your terrain graphics changes to my old version of C2C (May) with the old .dll.

The map does load and I can access the new terrain graphics in WB. Also more importantly I can Shift-click on a tile that displays a box with all the features of that tile, so I can change it through drop down boxes etc.much more easierly, than clicking on a graphic and then on the map - mistake prone.

Thanks for that.

But some of the tiles in both main map and WB, just now display as Pink squares, overlapping other squares.

They tend to be less used terrains -such as Saltflats, Rocky, Scrub, Lush, Barren etc.

This of course can be a bit confusing. But if I have to, I can live with that.

Any clues what I need to do, to resolve this?

As this is specific to my use of WorldBuilder, using an older .dll (last May) - do not waste time on this, if you have not got a ready made answer.

Hope my post is not to confusing.

Thanks.

That means there are missing textures, or that the texture paths for the pink terrains are wrong in the CIV4ArtDefines_Terrain.xml. This is probably because some of the terrains in this terrain pack got merged into SVN recently (and is thus missing from this terrain pack).
The easiest way to fix this would be to copy the whole folder "Beyond the Sword\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos\Assets\art\Terrain\Textures" from the SVN into your old C2C installation and then overwrite that again with the same folder included in this terrain pack.

Harrier · Dec 15, 2015

Also copied Terrain\Features (bamboo and floodplains) as well as \Textures and it worked fine. Did not need to overwrite the terrain package again.

The only thing showing pink now is a Natural Wonder, but that is not a problem as it is already placed on the map and I will not be playing the map on this old SVN version, just editing it.

Thanks a lot.

Toffer90 · Dec 15, 2015

Harrier said:
Also copied Terrain\Features (bamboo and floodplains) as well as \Textures and it worked fine. Did not need to overwrite the terrain package again.

The only thing showing pink now is a Natural Wonder, but that is not a problem as it is already placed on the map and I will not be playing the map on this old SVN version, just editing it.

Thanks a lot.

No problem,
perhaps you should post the assets needed for making maps with the old C2C version.

Edit: Updated terrain pack.

Made textures for polar and tropical variations of the shallow Sea terrain.
Tweaked land-coast transition texture.

colonelflag · Mar 12, 2016

Hi Toffer90,

Is the folder structure in your zipped Terrainpack correct ?

It has 2 "Water" folders- one under the Terrain folder and one under the Textures folder.

Cheers
ColnelFlag

Toffer90 · Mar 12, 2016

It is correct.
The one under terrain folder could be renamed to waterplane for clarity, but eh, why bother.

Edit: updated terrain pack
It now has a better water land transition, especially for tropical coasts. Less bright green edges towards land.

EditEdit: (Apr. 27.)
The map script I'll soon add to the SVN places deep sea and trenches on the map, this will probably trigger me to start improving the ocean terrain color scheme. there is some pretty ugly clashes between e.g. "Deep Tropical Sea" and the (Shallow Sea, Tropical Coast and Tropical Ocean). Deep sea is currently too dark and have the same texture for all climates.

Dancing Hoskuld · Apr 26, 2016

Thinking on it, while we need the three different temperatures for the water maps, they don't really need to look different. The main use of the different climates it to control where animals can move and spawn.

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