Explain it like I'm five: Modernism vs. Postmodernism

[Tee Kay]

Explain it like I'm five: Modernism vs. Postmodernism

Well, son, they're fancy terms people use to throw at each other that can mean anything people want them to mean. Don't ya worry ya little head about it.

 

[timtofly]

So far most of the descriptions in this thread of the post-modernist 'movement' here has been closer to describing modernism. The popular conception of relativism is modernist. AFAIK, there is no single strand of post-modernist movement. Post-modernism consists of reactions and, one could say, refinements to the points made by modernism. Most people who talk about post-modernism as if it's a thing don't know much if anything about it.

Or a descriptive meaning of something without meaning is useless?

 

[aelf]

I don't even think you know what meaning means, so let's not get into that debate.

I think post-modernism says some interesting things, as with many other intellectual movements with the exception of stuff like Objectivism.

 

[Traitorfish]

Objectivism isn't an intellectual movement. That it would imply that it's capable of, well, intellectual movement.

 

[Dachs]

I think post-modernism says some interesting things, as with many other intellectual movements with the exception of stuff like Objectivism.

So it's a movement while not being a movement?

 

[aelf]

So it's a movement while not being a movement?

Post-modernism? I used "movements" to talk about other movements that can less controversially be described as movements. Whether post-modernism is a (single) movement is up for debate. Some people think it is, and they may be right insofar as we're looking at it from a chronological perspective.

 

[Antilogic]

Objectivism isn't an intellectual movement. That it would imply that it's capable of, well, intellectual movement.

Do bowel movements count?



I once had a class that addressed modernity and post-modernism. As far as I could tell, nobody really has a clue where to draw the line between modernist and post-modernist. I looked on wiki at both the modernism and post-modernism entries to try and refresh my memory, and it doesn't look familiar at all.

 

[_random_]

Well, son, they're fancy terms people use to throw at each other that can mean anything people want them to mean. Don't ya worry ya little head about it.

That's a pretty post-modern way of looking at it.

 

[luiz]

There's a lot of excellent stuff in post-modernism. Lets look at this pearl of wisdom by Jacques Lacan:

S(signifier) / s(signified) = s(the statement), with S = (-1), produces s = square.root(-1).
...
[Therefore], the erectile organ is equivalent to square.root(-1) of the signification produced above, of the jouissance that it restores by the coefficient of its statement to the function of lack of signifier (-1).

Clear, concise, and demonstrating a tremendous understanding of mathematics.

 

[illram]

Post-modernism definitely is more definable in the art world, albeit still subject to debate, such as whether Duchamp can be called a post modernist even though Traitorfish correctly points out he is usually defined as a dada artist. (Wiki references that postmodernism and dada, intellectually, are similar and that postmodernist thinkers staunch opposition to the idea that anyone has previously thought of what they are thinking about is obviously in direct opposition to the idea that artists from the 1920s already did everything these intellectual post modern dudes are talking about.)

 

[Mr. Dictator]

Bumping, with an afterthought.

Pertaining to postmodernism, in the arts, I wonder if anyone else has noticed its degrading effect on the arts. What got me thinking was this: I read a study recently that seemed to show a slight increase in creative functioning (the metric was lateral thinking exercises, if I remember correctly) when a written clue was presented to the left eye. To the right eye, there was no effect, however. I can't remember how that pertained to this at all, but the article went on about how frustration is the key to insight. By exhausting the limits of one's logic, one gives up, stares at the page, make subtle connections, and see the answer.

A small snippet of this article is what inspired this though. The idea went along the lines of this: "Strict poetic forms are more likely to frustrate the poet, eventually leading to insight in his or her failed attempts with logic, which show him or her how to break the standard language just enough to convey, but not enough to confuse."

Well, with postmodernism's dismantling of the narratives of art movements, it has removed the rules that once frustrated and constrained, yet also unified and advanced, artists. Cubism was able to develop, because it had a rationale behind it. Yes, its narrative and meaning was manufactured, but it at least attempted to make one and it gave the blueprint of "this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it."

Anyways, quick little blurb that popped into my head today. I'm getting sleepy, so maybe someone else could expand on what I said, if they agree; or go ahead and start correcting me.

 

[aelf]

I'm just not so sure that post-modern art has no narratives.

 

[Ayn Rand]

Objectivism isn't an intellectual movement. That it would imply that it's capable of, well, intellectual movement.

I would really say the same about post-modernism. In many respects, Objectivism is the last remaining strand of modernism in existence - carrying the light of rationality forward in an age of darkness, it's our job to guard the sacred flame of philosophy in the new Dark Age.

 

[Traitorfish]

I would say that a world in which Objectivism represents the last strand of modernism is functionally equivalent to a world in which modernism has ceased to be.

 

[kulade]

illram's urinal explanation is actually right on point.

Basically in recent times, modern society has become so good at producing art, entertainment, writing, and philosophy that some putative intellectuals came around and started painting, writing and thinking as poorly as they possibly could as some pathetic "rebellion" against modern society in display of their ineptitude.

Post-modernist philosophers like to say pretentious thinks like "all text is meaningless and arbitrary" which actually is true for anyone who has had the grand misfortune of reading nothing but wretched po-mo.

 

[Ayn Rand]

I would say that a world in which Objectivism represents the last strand of modernism is functionally equivalent to a world in which modernism has ceased to be.

I would say that a World in which post-modernism represents the last strand of human thought is functionally equivalent to a World in which rational intellect and thought have ceased to be.

Spoiler :

See what I did there?

 

[ParkCungHee]

I would really say the same about post-modernism. In many respects, Objectivism is the last remaining strand of modernism in existence

Which is very strange, because it incorporates pretty much none of Modernist philosophy into it's thought.

 

[Dachs]

illram's urinal explanation is actually right on point.

Basically in recent times, modern society has become so good at producing art, entertainment, writing, and philosophy that some putative intellectuals came around and started painting, writing and thinking as poorly as they possibly could as some pathetic "rebellion" against modern society in display of their ineptitude.

Post-modernist philosophers like to say pretentious thinks like "all text is meaningless and arbitrary" which actually is true for anyone who has had the grand misfortune of reading nothing but wretched po-mo.

Hooray, kulade's back!

 

[Ayn Rand]

Which is very strange, because it incorporates pretty much none of Modernist philosophy into it's thought.

I like to play it as I feel it. Let's just go with the flow here.

Btw I liek your neckbeard, it's pretty.

 

[aelf]

Which is very strange, because it incorporates pretty much none of Modernist philosophy into it's thought.

Yeah, I'd say that rationalism predates modernism, so Objectivists are arguably more outdated than they think.