Exploiting the Dead

[Berzerker]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/22/us/mollie-tibbetts-cristhian-rivera.html?action=click&module=In Other News&pgtype=Homepage&action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/22/us/mollie-tibbetts-iowa-student-autopsy/index.html

Univ of Iowa student was murdered by an alleged illegal immigrant and some people are upset she's being exploited for political reasons. If only she had been shot to death, then both the Republicans and Democrats could complain about exploiting the dead while they exploit the dead.

Clowns to the left of me,
Jokers to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you

 

[Ryika]

Most people are hypocrites; people who have standards and really live by them are rare. Even more so public discourse, because the people who are the loudest are usually those with an agenda.

 

[Lexicus]

I don't care at all about exploiting the dead for political reasons, the dead are dead, the goal is (or should be) to prevent more people from dying.

I mean, when people say "never again" about the Holocaust, no one accuses them of "exploiting the victims of the Holocaust for political reasons." That whole idea is just stupid.

The problem isn't that the right are "exploiting the death" of this woman for political gain, the problem is that they're acting like a murder committed by an undocumented immigrant is somehow different from one committed by someone born in the US. In the aggregate we have numbers demonstrating that immigrants commit fewer crimes than native-born citizens, so that's really just the end of the story there. "Minimize the amount of murders committed" is already a goal that America is committed to.

 

[Nexlev]

I'm sure we all have blood on our hands somehow.

 

[warpus]

I would rather people exploit the dead than the alive

Take out all your anger on the dead and be nice to the alive! Maybe that should be the new religion.

Join me.. In kicking your deceased family members in the groin. Together we will ascend to the promised lands

 

[Berzerker]

The problem isn't that the right are "exploiting the death" of this woman for political gain, the problem is that they're acting like a murder committed by an undocumented immigrant is somehow different from one committed by someone born in the US.

If the murderer was here illegally and prevented from entering the country she'd be alive, thats the difference

 

[JollyRoger]

If the murderer was here illegally and prevented from entering the country she'd be alive, thats the difference

If a good illegal with a gun had been on the spot, she would still be alive.

 

[Bootstoots]

This happened about 10 miles from where I went to college, and in the same county. I've only driven through Brooklyn, IA but definitely remember the flag thing. Standard little sleepy Midwestern town of ~1000. Never stopped there - my only good stories from Poweshiek County excluding Grinnell came from the all-night diner near Montezuma.

There's nothing to learn from this case. Random murders do happen every once in a while even in rural areas, every once in a while the assailant will be an illegal immigrant, and every once in a great while a random murder will happen close (in pop. density adjusted distance) to somewhere you have some connection to.

RIP Mollie Tibbetts, pretty young white female random murder victim du jour.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If the murderer was here illegally and prevented from entering the country she'd be alive, thats the difference

And every person murdered by a black man would "still be alive" if we had only "done the right thing" and lynched all the blacks, right?

 

[Berzerker]

If a good illegal with a gun had been on the spot, she would still be alive.

She'd be alive if neither of them was here

And every person murdered by a black man would "still be alive" if we had only "done the right thing" and lynched all the blacks, right?

Black women are not black men and it aint illegal to be a black man, it is illegal for this guy to be here.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Black women are not black men and it aint illegal to be a black man, it is illegal for this guy to be here.

Okay, so your theory is that trivial misdemeanors are valid predictors for murder?

 

[Berzerker]

Okay, so your theory is that trivial misdemeanors are valid predictors for murder?

If that was true we'd be treating people who commit misdemeanors like murderers. No, my 'theory' is she'd be alive if this guy was prevented from entering the country illegally. Lex said there was no difference between the murderer being homegrown or foreign, there is a difference - the latter shouldn't have been here. Now if the law required lynching black men and a black man was not lynched and murdered her then the people tasked with lynching him would be in trouble.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If that was true we'd be treating people who commit misdemeanors like murderers. No, my 'theory' is she'd be alive if this guy was prevented from entering the country illegally. Lex said there was no difference between the murderer being homegrown or foreign, there is a difference - the latter shouldn't have been here. Now if the law required lynching black men and a black man was not lynched and murdered her then the people tasked with lynching him would be in trouble.

And if I kill someone we could say that "if only we had given Tim a life sentence that time we caught him jaywalking the victim would be alive." So are you advocating life sentences for other petty misdemeanors, or just illegal entry?

 

[Berzerker]

And if I kill someone we could say that "if only we had given Tim a life sentence that time we caught him jaywalking the victim would be alive." So are you advocating life sentences for other petty misdemeanors, or just illegal entry?

If you murdered someone and we gave you a life sentence and you murdered more people I wouldn't feel so good about giving you the life sentence. I'm not arguing for treating illegal entry like murder, it should be treated like illegal entry and the person deported. She'd be alive if he didn't get into the country, that I cannot deny. This dilemma exists for everyone inviting immigrants in, which includes most of us.

 

[FriendlyFire]

If the murderer was here illegally and prevented from entering the country she'd be alive, thats the difference

Dear white people
Mexicans and Native Americans want their country back

 

[Ryika]

If you murdered someone and we gave you a life sentence and you murdered more people I wouldn't feel so good about giving you the life sentence. I'm not arguing for treating illegal entry like murder, it should be treated like illegal entry and the person deported. She'd be alive if he didn't get into the country, that I cannot deny. This dilemma exists for everyone inviting immigrants in, which includes most of us.

What makes it different from "If a tourist murders a person, then there is a dilemma for everyone who's in favor of tourism"? Unless murders committed by illegals are a rampant problem and illegals are vastly more prone to murder than the locals - which both seem to not be the case - that seems to be a meaningless point to me.

Dear white people
Mexicans and Native Americans want their country back

Pffft. Should have spent more time building a civilization then, and less time wearing headdresses and dancing around fires. It's not "their" country when they can't defend it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

What makes it different from "If a tourist murders a person, then there is a dilemma for everyone who's in favor of tourism"? Unless murders committed by illegals are a rampant problem and illegals are vastly more prone to murder than the locals - which both seem to not be the case - that seems to be a meaningless point to me.

Tourist, jaywalker...that's the point that the Trumpists don't get. Or maybe they do get it and just want to keep yammering about this meaningless point because from their point of view it beats talking about Trump's rapidly decaying legal position. Which is it @Berzerker, do you just not get it or are you trying to avoid the larger subject?

 

[Berzerker]

Dear white people
Mexicans and Native Americans want their country back

I dont think the Indians would want the Mexicans here either... And I suspect the Hopi would have been quite happy if the Navajo never showed up, and so on... Can you imagine the reaction of the Hopi if a white man entered their lands illegally and killed a young woman? They'd be asking how the murderer entered their lands and if anyone's incompetence was a factor.

What makes it different from "If a tourist murders a person, then there is a dilemma for everyone who's in favor of tourism"? Unless murders committed by illegals are a rampant problem and illegals are vastly more prone to murder than the locals - which both seem to not be the case - that seems to be a meaningless point to me.

Tourists come here legally, but yes, if tourists are murdering people then thats a dilemma for supporters of tourism. If we invite Syrian refugees into the country - and we should since we helped destroy their country - then we'll have a dilemma if Syrian refugees become, or are, terrorists. It doesn't matter who is more prone to commit murder, if a murderer was here illegally then they shouldn't have been here in the first place. If my family was murdered I'd hate the murderer, if my family was murdered by an illegal immigrant I'd be upset with the people who let them in.

Tourist, jaywalker...that's the point that the Trumpists don't get. Or maybe they do get it and just want to keep yammering about this meaningless point because from their point of view it beats talking about Trump's rapidly decaying legal position. Which is it @Berzerker, do you just not get it or are you trying to avoid the larger subject?

A woman was murdered by an (alleged) illegal immigrant... What is the larger subject?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A woman was murdered by an (alleged) illegal immigrant... What is the larger subject?

LOL...ask Donald Trump.

Oh.

Wait.

He's also pretending not to know.

 

[Berzerker]

I'm asking you