Facebook

[Hygro]

...and leave it at that.

What? No way man we can get 300 posts out of this ;D

 

[metatron]

Never had a facebook account.
Don't plan on ever having one.

 

[Hehehe]

I find it shocking that this is news to people. Facebook's entire business model is about selling their users' data. They've been selling data to data brokers for a long time. And the stuff that data brokers do with that information is really crazy stuff, they construct really advanced profiles of their users. I assumed that this was common knowledge, but apparently not. I apologize for the essay but I'd say it's relevant. TL;DR: mass data gathering is much more extensive than most people realize, and they know everything about you, and they know everything you've ever done on a computer or on a smartphone (or anything you've done while carrying a smartphone)

Spoiler :

Mass surveillance by private companies got kicked off when companies like Amazon realized that they can make a profit every step of the way: sell items to customers, sell customers' data to data brokers. Data brokering has since become much bigger, and so the data collection methods have also become much more extensive. There are many ways to gather mass data, and these are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head: first, many websites straight up sell their data to brokers. This includes many online vendors, all kinds of popular sites (not all of them, but some of them), adult entertainment sites, you name it. If those sites do not sell data, dishonest brokers can and do embed tracking ads on those sites, which reveal a user's entire browsing history. Then of course there are companies like Google, that sell user search histories and Google services data.

Then there are companies like Facebook (and, to a lesser extent, Whatsapp), which sells all of its data on all of its users. Obviously, this data includes everything users put up on Facebook. The data from Facebook helps put a name on an IP address or a browser fingerprint. In addition to that, the Facebook mobile app (which usually comes preinstalled on smart phones) also collects your entire phone's contents, including phone numbers and emails of everybody you know. This means that even if a person does not have Facebook, if his friends or associates do have it, Facebook can still collect data on that person.

Then there are mobile apps. I'm not sure if Facebook does all of this (it may or may not), but I know that there are many, many free apps that do. They collect all the data that can be collected from a smart phone. Names, addresses, emails, geolocation data, GSM location data, camera pictures, accelerometer data, whatever, you name it. Take a look at the terms of service for some of the "free" flashlight apps or whatever else they might have.

All of this data (and this is just what I can name off the top of my head) can be put together. Data will also be crosschecked: if they know any emails, user names or passwords, those can be used to find more data. For example, if you use the same password in several places, the system can link those accounts to you even if you use a different user name and email there (even if they don’t have your password, I they can compare password hashes). If that account yields any additional information, the they will obviously crosscheck that too. Facebook accounts and work emails can be used to put a name to all the accounts, IP addresses, MAC addresses and browser fingerprints. System will also check for phone numbers, which are used in many places, ranging from two-step verification to Facebook to emails to various other media accounts which need it.

Analyzing all of this, this data can tell a huge deal about a person. Everything from age, gender, race, income, family members, friends, associates, address, political leanings, personality type, mood, any possible health issues, any possible mental health issues (from depression to alcoholism, for example), sexual orientation, adult entertainment preferences, waking hours, work hours, who that person has met, you name it, there is more stuff than I can think of off the top of my head. Some companies have so accurate data models that they've actually been collecting lists of rape victims (I have no idea what use that serves). Big data has also been so accurate in predicting pregnancies, that the model has in some cases predicted that a woman is pregnant before she herself knew it.

Where this gets really interesting is what kind of things can be done with all this data. The obvious thing is marketing. A data broker called Axciom boasts about gathering data on 3000 different vulnerabilities that can be exploited to sell people stuff. Also, while mobile games can seem like a joke, some companies have put in a truly impressive amount of research as to how to make mobile games addictive. It sounds stupid, but they exploit all kinds of psychological mechanisms to make those games as addictive as they can (but that's another topic, to get a sense of what I'm talking about, google Skinner's box).

Recently, there was a leak. Nobody knows for sure what company it came from (Axciom being a prime suspect) and the leak is also impossible to verify. But the data sounds plausible (you're free to decide if you want to believe it). So apparently, data brokers have been using extremely intrusive methods of data gathering, such as tapping into a smartphone's microphone. The leak said that this anonymous company has a voice recognition program that can identify 500 000 different non-speech sounds, and what they say about a person, and add that to their profile (sounds could be anything from a barking dog to crying children etc.). Also, according to them, they can identify what car you're driving by the engine sounds. Also, while the leak didn't say this, I imagine they'd run speech recognition of speech too. In addition to that, smartphones can be used to scan for other smartphones in the vicinity. Phones can also do wifi mapping, charting your house layout.

The leak can be found here: https://imgur.com/a/rhFuj

Best part about all of this spying? It's all 100 % legal. If you've ever signed an EULA, then you've probably agreed to all of the above. And if any of this sounds fantastic, feel free to use Google for details. Combine words like "data broker" "big data" with whatever particular topic you're interested in. It was only a couple of years ago that people thought that government mass surveillance is pure tinfoil hat conspiracy lunacy. And lo and behold, all if it turned out to be true.

Obviously, this data collection has many issues, the biggest being privacy. But beyond that, there are leaks. The most famous leak being the Equifax leak, that leaked all the financial information of what, half of all Americans? These companies have also been known to sell this data. Some data broker didn't do proper vetting, and they sold financial information to scammers and internet criminals.

I suspect that this data also has a lot of use in the field of politics. Presumably, intelligence agencies (and not just US intelligence agencies) have already taken an interest in all of this. Imagine, for example, buying all of that data and seeing what you could find on politicians. Do you think that none of them will have any compromising stuff that could be uncovered this way? And even if they don't, do you think that their loved ones are all squeaky clean? I imagine that intelligence services are already building compromats on important figures.

[NOTE: I originally wrote this long before the Cambridge Analytica thing came out]

Furthermore, although I haven't heard of this happening yet, I imagine that such data could be used to influence people. Imagine someone putting the kind of research into influencing a person's political positions as they do in mobile games. I imagine they could make this kind of propaganda extremely effective and subtle (then again I am not an expert on this). For example, if you'd want to convert someone towards small government libertarianism, every now and then, you could introduce some subtle piece of news about some government messing up into their news-feed. Then you could monitor if it results in any kind of change in their views (in reality I imagine that this would be used for far more nefarious things though).

Furthermore, although it seems unlikely, imagine all the things that a totalitarian government could do with all of this mass data. You'd have a system that tells you everything you need to know. And given the pervasiveness of technology and social media, I suppose that if someone isn't using them, then that alone would be enough to raise suspicions. The system gathers data on political leanings, so dissidents would be very easy to find. And addition to that, the system also tells you everything about their family and friends, so that you could crack down on networks. It sounds impossible that Western countries would abuse such data, and perhaps it is. But maybe China or Russia would find good political use for mass data?

So yeah, have fun with that thought. Nothing you've ever done on an electronic screen is private anymore. For many people, that includes huge portions of their lives, from phone to social media. And unless you're a really advanced user, there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Yeekim]

I have never used facebook because it has always been obvious that this is how they make their money, so it will not effect my use.

One of my biggest bugbears is people who insist on using these proprietary, tracked and monetised means of communication such that I am excluded.

This and this.

 

[Silurian]

no personal information,

I have an account so I can see who is playing at some bars.

All the personal information in my profile is false.

 

[Hehehe]

Just in case it wasn't clear enough, you guys do realize that data brokers are tracking everything you do on the internet? Even if you don't have Facebook? Facebook isn't the only one collecting and selling data. Also, it's worth noting that Facebook collects much, much more than just what information you put in there, they collect everything from your smartphone, which for many people is almost their entire life (many other free apps do this as well). Also, even if you don't have a Facebook account, Facebook is still spying on you through your friends accounts

 

[Manfred Belheim]

No you don't, there are a ton of other im platforms that work perfectly fine. Facebook is only better because it's ubiquitous- everyone has it. It's like saying we couldn't survive without google. Sure we could, we'd just use bing or something else at this point. At one point it was unique but now there are tons of other options.

I don't think it was ever unique. It wasn't even the first search engine around, it just became by far the most popular.

 

[Lexicus]

What's worrisome is that polls consistently report large numbers of people using Facebook as a news source.

That they're using it as a "news aggregator" is likely to be more accurate. I "follow" a bunch of different media outlets on Facebook, but all those media outlets are my real news sources, not Facebook.

 

[Yeekim]

Just in case it wasn't clear enough, you guys do realize that data brokers are tracking everything you do on the internet?

Obviously.

Also, even if you don't have a Facebook account, Facebook is still spying on you through your friends accounts

How would that work?
I understood that in the case of Cambridge Analytica, they got access to data of people who didn't use their app or whatever, but these people were still on Facebook...

 

[Silurian]

If your friends "agree by search for friends" for facebook to upload their phone contact lists, text log, photos with you tagged etc they will have a fair bit of info about you.
Facebook allow none facebook users to get a copy of the data they hold on them.

 

[Hehehe]

How would that work?
I understood that in the case of Cambridge Analytica, they got access to data of people who didn't use their app or whatever, but these people were still on Facebook...

As an example, imagine that you and I are friends in real life. Imagine that I have Facebook and you don't. Facebook app is going to go through my smartphone looking for all of my contacts. They'll find your name, phone number and maybe email from my phone. Now that alone might not say much about you, but imagine that all of your friends and colleagues also have Facebook. That way Facebook can find out a lot about you, including stuff like contact information, friends (judge a man by the company he keeps) and colleagues (where you work).

As for these companies like Cambridge Analytica, I don't know the details in this particular case, but I do know that many websites and tech giants sell user data to data brokers, and companies like Cambridge Analytica can buy it from them

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Why do you just want to stick to the facebook angle. What about the Trump election angle. the Brexit angle. etc

http://money.cnn.com/2018/03/21/technology/facebook-and-2018-midterm-elections/index.html

Because we already have a bunch of threads for that conversation and once Trump gets into this topic it will become only about Trump.

To me it looks like the only activity that was against the facebook rules (at that time) was the transfer of the data to Cambridge Analytica. That is something that is hard to prevent and the end it doesn't matter that much how many middlemen were involved. I concur that they're saying sorry mostly for damage control, because they're not bold enough to admit: Yeah, that's what we do.

Was it not against policy for the app to scrape the data from people who didn't use the app?

No you don't, there are a ton of other im platforms that work perfectly fine. Facebook is only better because it's ubiquitous- everyone has it. It's like saying we couldn't survive without google. Sure we could, we'd just use bing or something else at this point. At one point it was unique but now there are tons of other options.

I use groupme app with many of my friends for example.

I use groupme too, it's great for meme generation.

It boils down to that… FB is almost like a second email inbox. Check it once or twice a week and that's it. Contact numbers always in single-digits, always only people I know IRL. No wall, no pics, no polls, no personal information, and that's it.

What's worrisome is that polls consistently report large numbers of people using Facebook as a news source.

I had a friend that used to report everything they read on Facebook with lots of worry and concern. I kept pointing out the blatant falsehoods they were taking as fact and finally just took to the tactic of replying 'Did you read that on Facebook? Yes? Then it's fake news, don't worry about it.' .

That they're using it as a "news aggregator" is likely to be more accurate. I "follow" a bunch of different media outlets on Facebook, but all those media outlets are my real news sources, not Facebook.

Wait what? I mean I get you're doing it 'correctly' but I'd say the vast majority of people just read whatever pops up on their feed without really putting thought into how it got there, where it came from or whether or not it's true. Technically, yeah, it's been aggregated for them but it doesn't really matter when people treat everything they see on the platform as the gospel truth and cannot discriminate between news and fake news.

 

[Lexicus]

Wait what? I mean I get you're doing it 'correctly' but I'd say the vast majority of people just read whatever pops up on their feed without really putting thought into how it got there, where it came from or whether or not it's true. Technically, yeah, it's been aggregated for them but it doesn't really matter when people treat everything they see on the platform as the gospel truth and cannot discriminate between news and fake news.

Right, but my point is just that Facebook itself is not a news source as afaik it doesn't generate news content. People are presumably self-reporting that Facebook is their news source because they don't understand that Facebook is actually a news aggregator, not a news source.

 

[civvver]

I don't think it was ever unique. It wasn't even the first search engine around, it just became by far the most popular.

I remember it as being the first clean search engine. It wasn't the first webcrawler but it had no bloat, while other websites still had a bunch of banner ads and stuff. Google has ads after you hit search.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Maybe my old hazy memory is failing, but I remember the first time I heard of Google it was "just another search" engine, like the others that were around at the time. I don't remember it being markedly different in look or to use.

 

[stfoskey12]

I use Facebook daily, and my main complaint about it is there are too many videos. I post on it once every couple weeks about interesting weather happenings in North Carolina or Oklahoma. I find it interesting to see what other people are posting. For the most part I don't post anything super private on Facebook and don't care if other people see it.

 

[Takhisis]

As an example, imagine that you and I are friends in real life. Imagine that I have Facebook and you don't. Facebook app is going to go through my smartphone looking for all of my contacts. They'll find your name, phone number and maybe email from my phone. Now that alone might not say much about you, but imagine that all of your friends and colleagues also have Facebook. That way Facebook can find out a lot about you, including stuff like contact information, friends (judge a man by the company he keeps) and colleagues (where you work).

As for these companies like Cambridge Analytica, I don't know the details in this particular case, but I do know that many websites and tech giants sell user data to data brokers, and companies like Cambridge Analytica can buy it from them

Relevant, from another thread:

Like, if you're concerned about privacy, and software companies acting in your best interest, you should be using DuckDuckGo to search, you shouldn't be using Chrome as a web browser, you should be running uBlock Origin in medium or hard mode, you should only accept selectively whitelisted cookies, when you browse the web you shouldn't browse any of Google/Facebook/etc. in your regular browser (if you must browse these sites, I suggest either separate browser installs for each one, or Firefox containers), you shouldn't be using gmail (or any free email service) for email, you should be using Apple Maps or OpenStreetMap for mapping.

After you've done all that, you can start looking at disabling telemetry services on your Android device. Then, you can take a look at doing the same for your Windows PC.

Standard operating procedure for me…

Now, seriously, I always enter FB/Google/other sites from private windows and they get to leave no cookies. I never enter newspapers/news sites in one same browser session as the one I entered Google/FB with.
I never enter FB/Google (again!) with cellphones.
If at all possible I don't ever login to any site from anywhere.

People are just handing these people their highly valuable information when it wouldn't cost them anything to block that. Common sense really might not be that common a sense.

 

[Commodore]

People still use Facebook? Instagram and Twitter are where all the cool kids are now.

 

[SS-18 ICBM]

Moderation is the key. Figure out what information you're willing to post (i.e. share with advertisers, etc). Remember that TANSTAAFL: these services are free for a reason.

 

[Lexicus]

I use Facebook as a political soapbox. Just yesterday I posted a meme on Facebook calling for the socialization of Facebook.