Facing Mortality

[TheMeInTeam]

My thesis is that death is something that should be fought, and can be defeated. All human deaths have a cause, and each of those causes is fundamentally solvable. It requires a deliberate effort, but that effort is a worthy one.

Conquering the blight of involuntary death. It is a worthy endeavor.

I'm in this boat. As an atheist it's my only choice if I want to continue having experiences.

I suppose I wouldn't care about dying after doing so, but I'd rather not. I'm well aware that if we solve we'd be pulling off an extreme statistical improbability, but it's worth a shot. Failing that, might as well enjoy the time available as much as possible.

I fear that a lack of natural death will result in tyranny, complete exhaustion of the world's resources, and mass natural mortality being replaced by mass murder.

I find most of these doubtful. Immortality would alter societal patterns drastically, but we already have tyranny and I see no reason to anticipate particular spikes in mass murder beyond what we already get with occasional wars.

When it comes to resource consumption, we must solve that as a species regardless of whether we manage to solve aging or we get an identical result marginally later on geologic time scales.

If we're not off the planet or tech gods we'll eventually get roasted by the Sun. If we clear that hurdle immortality would buy us a lot of time, heat death of the universe is a long way away.

 

[Hygro]

How I feel about this is directly reflective of my depression levels or lack thereof.

 

[Hrothbern]

I have never been impressed by the concept of Hell.
Also when as kid I was fully immerged in a strict Protestant Christian education.
Trying to remember how I looked upon Hell as kid: Don't mess with God... yes. God a bully... not really. Jesus a bully... I could not believe that. Too contrary to the rest what he said.

In the Old Testament it is about the realm of the death.
No more, no less.
And suddenly that Hell is there in the Gospels, with lots of fire.
And also... important !!!... not explained by the gospels, by Jesus, by Paulus as if it would be a new concept
As if "everybody" of the disciples, followers of Jesus and the listening crowds, knew already the concept Hell (with fire) as a terrible place. But not from the Old Testament.

How about Plato inventing or spreading the concept of Hell around 400 BC ?

Plato, ever the dialogue-based philosopher gave up all of the dialogues after Socrates died, in large part, and focused instead of writing his way out of the mourning. As Hannah Arendt points out, “the myth of hell was created in the end of the Republic for those who could not handle philosophical truth.” Hell was created as a myth to promote a form of nonviolence as the foundation of politial decision making. Plato’s invention of hell was a way for citizens to have a new system of rewards and punishments in the hereafter, thus it was a coercive device to promote a new form of democracy. It might also be this invention, not of hell exactly, but of forms of coercion that seek to control the unruly citizenry that has left many pondering on Plato’s totalitarianism.

https://danieltutt.com/2012/06/12/the-philosopher-in-mourning-platos-invention-of-hell/

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't accept Christ because I was afraid of death. I accepted Christ because I was afraid of Hell.

Both Hell and immortality are religious concepts built around a fear of death we had long before Jesus showed up. The Jewish hell (sheol) is the grave - death.

I'm 32 now but 12 months ago I was in a critical condition in ICU due to severe pneumonia, I was in ICU for about 18/19 days. The damn diabetes that I have more than likely played a big part in this happening, diabetes lessens your immune system so your resistances aren't are strong; the pneumonia I had was bacterial in nature.

But I keep going. I know I will die one day but I hope to live until i'm at least 55. I'm around 110lbs overweight and i've arthritis in both my knees so I know I need to cop on if I don't want to walking with a walking stick in my mid or late 40's. Plus I heard about how losing a lot of weight can reverse the type 2 version of diabetes, i'd like to know that this is true.

I'm OK with mortality, what will happen will happen. I can remember having an existential crisis when I was around 16 but haven't had any since then (despite being double the age now.) I also believe there's something after death, but i'm not sure what.

Recent research does suggest type II can be reversed. If you cant go Vegan just cut down on empty carbs and high sugar content. Fiber is your friend. And fast! When you starve your body all sorts of mechanisms that evolved along with us to fend off starvation kick into gear. Instead of relying on easily digested carbs and the sugar spikes they cause you will start burning fat stores. I typically dont eat between late night and late afternoon - up to 16 hours.

Diabetes is mostly diet related. It will take a concerted effort the first few weeks but once your body re-adapts to fattier foods (healthy fats, like fish, nuts, olive oil, etc) and not quickly absorbed sugars the going gets easier and you wont feel the urge to eat as much. I dont think you have to go full Keto or Paleo and complex carbs are still good, but water, tea, coffee and whole foods are the key. I recently went Keto, albeit I dont count calories or pay strict attention to the guidelines, but I'm losing weight and I dont feel hungry.

There's very little research being done. Likely not in my lifetime. I suspect it will be another 100 to 200 years before science conquers the uphill battle of understanding and repairing mitochondria.

Thats my fear, like the last soldier dying in a fruitless war. I'll die shortly before they conquer death

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Hell is a very scary thing:

Worst part is i am a lawyer (sort of), but fortunately not French.

 

[red_elk]

Even if aging will be defeated at some point, this will not lead to immortality. People can die due to many other reasons - crimes, accidents, disasters or fatal conditions. We need a proper save/load mechanism.

 

[Kyriakos]

Hell isnt a greek myth. Eg in the famous scene in the odyssey, it doesnt matter what you did if you are dead; even achilles is a shadow.
Not familiar with arend, but this smells like mass projection. Plato's later work is in dialogue form like his previous work. The only difference is that there is no character of socrates, in the Laws.

 

[Azem.Ocram]

I’ve had 3 near-death experiences, 2 of which I can reliably talk about.

I climbed and subsequently fell off a ladder at age 2. I remember digging potatoes in my friend’s backyard, getting bored, looking through the French doors at my mom, who was busy at the time, and walking to the side yard. I don’t remember anything else after that (until preschool) but my mom has told me detailed stories of the ER

I almost died of epiglotitus last May from complications of a Strep infection.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Closest I ever came to death was sucking hard on a new gobstopper between my teeth in 7th grade.

It came loose and fired into the back of my throat like a perfect pinball shot.

Tiny cough did nothing, so I was too scared to inhale at that point.

I swallowed and it got stuck almost immediately.
Tears of pain going down my face from violating my esophagus, but was so happy to breathe.
Eventually it went all the way down.

I'm sure those gobstoppers have killed thousands of kids over the years.


Two close drownings as a kid count too I guess.
Water is my enemy!

Saved a red headed 4 year old once.
He slipped under the water and no one but I saw him.
A quiet way to go.


Simulated execution in a nightmare?
My last thoughts were NOOOOOOOOOO!!! once I realized I was about to die in a few more seconds.

Saw Hell in a dream once.
At least, I think it was.
Nothing in reality comes close.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

I am terrified of Hell.


One night I had the worst nightmare of my life.

It started out on a desolate land in the twilight.
Right away there was this static sounding noise louder than anything possible in real life. (200dB?)
I screamed, but I heard no sound over the omnipotent noise.
It was so loud my mind was incapable of thinking.
I felt deep loneliness, like I was the only one in the whole world, and I somehow knew that I was.

The ground started pulsating, and I tried to cover my eyes, but I could see right through my hands!
I closed my eyes, but I could see through them too.
I covered my ears, but the sound was not diminished in any way.

Some malevolent voice accompanied the groan of reality bending, and I started to sink into the pulsating landscape.
Once underground, things wandered past my vision, and then I fell into a cave.

There was a dead baby asking for help in the cave. (not sure how I could hear it so clearly over the static noise?)
It seemed soulless when it gazed at me, and it pleaded for help like it thought that's what a dead baby ought to do if it saw a person.

Then I was suddenly on a plains.
I had eyes in the sides and back of my head so I could see in every direction.
I was surrounded by an impossible all consuming 360 degree tidal wave was chasing 5 semi-tractor trailer gasoline trucks that were converging for a head on collision with me in the middle.
The one time in my life I really felt doom, because where would I run?
They crashed into me and suddenly I was drowning and on fire at the same time.


I woke up screaming at the end of the the 5 minute dream.
The constantly changing realities and mind destroying noise threw reason right out the door.
There was no hiding either because my body was ghostlike.
There was only torment, but no physical pain.
Not sure if the dream was a glimpse of Hell, the one place defined by the absence of God.​

-- Added in a few details I left out of the original post.

My grandma said the static noise was the souls of the damned, but it really sounded like insane white noise.

There was no sensation of pain, so it must have been just a bad dream from playing Doom 3.
Can't feel pain in dreams.

 

[Cutlass]

I think the mistake is thinking that we matter. Either individually, or collectively. But rather in the vast sweep of the universe, the human race itself will pass unnoticed. Even all life on Earth will.

So deal with it. Get what you can out of this life, and leave the existential dread behind.

 

[Estebonrober]

I think the mistake is thinking that we matter. Either individually, or collectively. But rather in the vast sweep of the universe, the human race itself will pass unnoticed. Even all life on Earth will.

So deal with it. Get what you can out of this life, and leave the existential dread behind.

Existential dread is the state of a finite universe, asking the dust of that universe that became self aware to ignore that is pretty funny.

 

[Gori the Grey]

I think about death a good bit. I'm a bit like Prospero in the Tempest, who resolves at the end of the play that henceforth, his every third thought will be of the grave.

I don't fear it. When it's really imminent, who knows whether I'll be able to maintain that same equanimity? But one part of why I don't fear it, is that I already feel as though I'm playing with house money. I've had a good life, so I often reflect that, if I were to die tomorrow, I would already have had more blessings than I deserve, than any human could reasonably lay claim to.

Lately, I've started thinking that the last thing I'm likely to see in this world is a ceiling tile. A lot of us die in hospitals now. That'll be ok.

If I'm aware of my imminent passing, I'd like to have Mozart's 23 Piano Concerto playing. That's the music I'd like to pass away to.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I’ve had 3 near-death experiences, 2 of which I can reliably talk about.

I climbed and subsequently fell off a ladder at age 2. I remember digging potatoes in my friend’s backyard, getting bored, looking through the French doors at my mom, who was busy at the time, and walking to the side yard. I don’t remember anything else after that (until preschool) but my mom has told me detailed stories of the ER

I almost died of epiglotitus last May from compications of a Strep infection.

Ugh strep infections.
Epiglotitus is the back of the tongue right?
Thank goodness for antibiotics.

I had no idea, but untreated strep (2 weeks) can trigger rheumatic fever in 3% of people where the body attacks itself.
That causes long term heart damage half the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheumatic_fever

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hell is a very scary thing:

Worst part is i am a lawyer (sort of), but fortunately not French.

Maybe we will end up in the Good Place with Kristen Bell!

The trailer isn't very good with that annoying dropping sound, but the show is funny enough to be making its 4th season currently.

 

[tetley]

And suddenly that Hell is there in the Gospels, with lots of fire.

Not accurate. The earliest reference to Hell is the Hebrew "ge Hinnom", in Genesis. It is a small valley outside Jerusalem, where all kinds of refuse was thrown. Sewage, rubbish, piles of dead bones, and later on child sacrifice was performed there. They burned their trash, and the fire never went out. Day and night, every day, it was always smoking. This is where they got their understanding of Hell, and it is from that where the Greeks got the word "Gehenna", or Hell.

 

[Kyriakos]

That word (γέεννα) is only used in biblical context, but the common term for hell in greek is "kolase", which very likely was a common (not tied to hell) term originally, much like the greek term for the devil (diavolos/diabolos) comes from an older root and the verb diabalo; to tarnish.

 

[tetley]

Frankly, I don't see a compelling reason to debase myself in fear of eternal damnation. A God that genuinely sees such a judgment as fair is not one I'm interested in serving. I'd rather be kind and generous because I want to be instead of because I'm afraid. If a would-be deity sees that as the ultimate betrayal, that is fine by me.

Let's not kid ourselves--at the root of it is that you see no imminent threat right in front of you. You've had to have served a boss before who was a jerk and didn't deserve serving--and the only threat there was you had to find new work. The difference is that the boss is right there, and you saw the actual bills at home to pay.

It's hard to debase yourself before a God who created millions of galaxies, life...your own body. God is already debasing himself far more to even bother to reach you at all. After all, did you even create one hair on your head? The real issue is that you would see yourself as bowing before an inanimate idol that isn't really real. Now that is debasing. Has nothing to do with fairness.

 

[Kaitzilla]

The immortal soul should be a top concern, but as recently as 1521A.D. priests were burning people alive to save their immortal souls.

If the immolated avoided Hell in this manner, then the Inquisition did them a favor, but there has to be a flaw in there somewhere.

 

[tetley]

Muslims still kill their kids who convert to Christianity, thinking they are doing the same thing.

 

[Synobun]

Let's not kid ourselves--at the root of it is that you see no imminent threat right in front of you. You've had to have served a boss before who was a jerk and didn't deserve serving--and the only threat there was you had to find new work. The difference is that the boss is right there, and you saw the actual bills at home to pay.

It's hard to debase yourself before a God who created millions of galaxies, life...your own body. God is already debasing himself far more to even bother to reach you at all. After all, did you even create one hair on your head? The real issue is that you would see yourself as bowing before an inanimate idol that isn't really real. Now that is debasing. Has nothing to do with fairness.

Your principles are meaningless if they exist only out of fear. You are a servant, not an individual. This defeats the point of the free will your God bestowed upon us.

Not my speed, sorry. I typically rate as anti-theist, but I'm especially anti that. That doctrine reeks of abuse.

But also: it's not hard at all to debase yourself in front of that God. After all, it set out virtues and principles you should adhere to. It obviously has some idea of proper living. That doesn't mean too much if your principles are so easily malleable. Sprinkle a little fear and you'll dance to any tune, and you think your Lord sees that as the system working as intended?

Your Lord sounds a bit like Lucifer. I doubt that's your intended proselytization here.