Fall 2017 Update Info

[stealth_nsk]

I disagree, in V where passive spread was stronger and religious units lost strength in enemy territory the conflict took place at 3rd party cities that would make the difference with spread.

It's still playing using religious units, they just have more effect, by affecting more cities with delayed passive effect.

The key point here is. Present Civ6 religious combat is still quite boring. There are no terrain effects, not much unit diversity and compared to Civ6 comba, there's no tactics. The key point is - if religious combat will become fun for significant amount of players, the changes are totally worth it. If it will be still boring... well, at least I hope we'll have less AI unit spam.

 

[Tech Osen]

Now that I think of it, losing health in lands without open borders would probably 'fix' the whole thing

It would probably kill off the possibility of the AI to achieve religious victory. Defending would be too easy. Maybe if they would only loose health on tiles from a city with a different religion but even then.

 

[Starwars]

It would probably kill off the possibility of the AI to achieve religious victory. Defending would be too easy. Maybe if they would only loose health on tiles from a city with a different religion but even then.

Is there any hope of them doing a religious victory even now though? I don't play on difficulties above Emperor so maybe it's different there, but didn't one of the patches reduce the rate at which the AI uses the religious units? I know that they have never even gotten close to winning a religion victory in any of the games I can remember.

 

[Tech Osen]

I almost lost once or twice to a religious victory when I wasn't paying enough attention to the victory screen but I can't remember if that was before or after the faith cost changes.

 

[bbbt]

Is there any hope of them doing a religious victory even now though? I don't play on difficulties above Emperor so maybe it's different there, but didn't one of the patches reduce the rate at which the AI uses the religious units? I know that they have never even gotten close to winning a religion victory in any of the games I can remember.

It's possible on pangea. It won't happen on continents or such.

Edit: Apparently I'm wrong per below. I'll say I've never seen it be threatened outside pangea, continents usually results in each continent having a dominant religion in my experience.

 

[Wingednosering]

Is there any hope of them doing a religious victory even now though? I don't play on difficulties above Emperor so maybe it's different there, but didn't one of the patches reduce the rate at which the AI uses the religious units? I know that they have never even gotten close to winning a religion victory in any of the games I can remember.

They can when combined with other victory types. I've accidentally given an AI a religious victory by wiping out other nations on my way to a dom win.

I've also seen AIs achieve RVs on their own, but it's definitely less common. Like dom victory, it really just depends on the number of civs in the game. I tend to play smaller maps, so I see it more frequently than most.

[Edit]: I hate Pangaea and never play it. That post above me is presumptuous.

 

[Tech Osen]

Random RV question: does a civ needs his holy city to win a religious victory? And if not then what's the function of a holy city besides generating more religious pressure?

 

[Victoria]

does a civ needs his holy city to win a religious victory? And if not then what's the function of a holy city besides generating more religious pressure?

Nope, your holy city can be converted but just the sound of that indicates the rest of your RV is likely to be quite holey

Apart from a bit of fanatical tourism I know of no other reason but glad to be corrected and feel there is more value.

 

[Scaramanga]

It's still playing using religious units, they just have more effect, by affecting more cities with delayed passive effect.

The key point here is. Present Civ6 religious combat is still quite boring. There are no terrain effects, not much unit diversity and compared to Civ6 comba, there's no tactics. The key point is - if religious combat will become fun for significant amount of players, the changes are totally worth it. If it will be still boring... well, at least I hope we'll have less AI unit spam.

Terrain effects would be "holy ground". Now we have ZOC and flanking and a support unit. I'm OK with Apostle promotions adding variety and I agree there has to be a balance between exciting religious combat and too many varieties of units clogging up the map.

 

[Victoria]

hmm with missionaries not being able to attack and ZOC limiting free movement could we end up with a permanent carpet snake?

 

[bbbt]

hmm with missionaries not being able to attack and ZOC limiting free movement could we end up with a permanent carpet snake?

Maybe they've added 'chain lightning' to the apostle promotions

 

[Scaramanga]

hmm with missionaries not being able to attack and ZOC limiting free movement could we end up with a permanent carpet snake?

Religious gridlock was a serious thing. People needed to know these things so an inquisitor or debater has to come along and sort it out. Naturally in our age of reason we're busy moving tanks and artillery around instead.

 

[Archon_Wing]

I almost lost once or twice to a religious victory when I wasn't paying enough attention to the victory screen but I can't remember if that was before or after the faith cost changes.

It is a bigger threat on maps with fewer opponents where some get aggressively wiped out and thus there may be no religious competition. There are also fewer religions that can be founded as well. Scythia tends to be good at it because of the heal on kill mechanic. However, the AI never seems to know when they're winning so they may only be a few cities from winning but instead they'd rather convert random cities elsewhere.

Although this isn't particularly a new problem. The AI has generally stumbled into victory; for example in Civ 4 vanilla, it would build space parts if they were available; it didn't aim for them. It would just happen to get that tech and if that option was available, it'd start doing it if it was in a proper mood. It wasn't until the last expansion that it would deliberately go for a win (culture)

In general, this is usually why I leave civs alive with some crappy cities, since their existence may potentially block a backdoor religious victory. On standard maps and bigger though, this is usually never a problem.

 

[gunnergoz]

It honestly surprises me that people want more passive religious spread when the culture victory is already complained to be "just clicking end of turn". So, the religious victory should be the same?

No, as stated in my comment, there should be actions the player takes in order to expand the radius of his/her religious influence. These actions should not need moving little religious units around to fight each other. They could consist of researching religious buildings and policies (which diverts efforts in other areas that could be researched, like science or politics) and then building those structures and enacting those policies. To add focus and weight, the player could consciously devote a portion of his income per turn to religious expansion ("tithng") and that would come at the expense of other potential expenditures like infrastructure or economic growth.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

If the only UI upgrade is to diplo screen, there's still no serious design effort going to UI and still no respect to be had for the priority in this game unfortunately.

Maybe they'll do more and I'll be pleasantly surprised to find that it takes 1/2 the present amount of clicks to get through a game. Wouldn't put money on it though.

 

[bbbt]

I think a very interesting set up could be done with passive spread if it was about setting up 'nodes' of pressure in order to convert and expand your religion. I.e. plotting where to 'place' them (be it converting a city/city state or additional mechanics), how strong they need to be, etc. Maybe additional mechanics - perhaps after prophets are claimed, gpp continue and the first across the line each time experiences a 'revival' that gives a burst of religious pressure from each source or such.

Anyway, I don't think anyone wants to switch to an entirely passive spread (going from a simplified dom victory to a simplified culture victory would not be appealing). The idea is to have religious victory be a combination of different strategies instead of just one repetitive one.

 

[Cerilis]

I think a very interesting set up could be done with passive spread if it was about setting up 'nodes' of pressure in order to convert and expand your religion. I.e. plotting where to 'place' them (be it converting a city/city state or additional mechanics), how strong they need to be, etc. Maybe additional mechanics - perhaps after prophets are claimed, gpp continue and the first across the line each time experiences a 'revival' that gives a burst of religious pressure from each source or such.

Anyway, I don't think anyone wants to switch to an entirely passive spread (going from a simplified dom victory to a simplified culture victory would not be appealing). The idea is to have religious victory be a combination of different strategies instead of just one repetitive one.

I love that idea. Instead of using charges to directly convert, apostles would set up places akin to Santiago de compostela.

 

[Rosty K]

I think a very interesting set up could be done with passive spread if it was about setting up 'nodes' of pressure in order to convert and expand your religion. I.e. plotting where to 'place' them (be it converting a city/city state or additional mechanics), how strong they need to be, etc. Maybe additional mechanics - perhaps after prophets are claimed, gpp continue and the first across the line each time experiences a 'revival' that gives a burst of religious pressure from each source or such.

Anyway, I don't think anyone wants to switch to an entirely passive spread (going from a simplified dom victory to a simplified culture victory would not be appealing). The idea is to have religious victory be a combination of different strategies instead of just one repetitive one.

Is there currently any way to see the area of the religious pressure on the map? I mean to know what area my cities are currently influencing? Just thought I'd ask here since you're talking about that anyway.

 

[Wingednosering]

Is there currently any way to see the area of the religious pressure on the map? I mean to know what area my cities are currently influencing? Just thought I'd ask here since you're talking about that anyway.

The religious lens is supposed to do that, but it's pretty awful right now. This patch is supposedly making it more useful.

 

[Rosty K]

The religious lens is supposed to do that, but it's pretty awful right now. This patch is supposedly making it more useful.

It only seems to color the area within the city borders, I can't even suggest where it is trying to show the influence from this city on other cities...