Fall Further 050 Bug Report Thread

[Tholal]

Floating Eyes don't reveal hidden units.

 

[stupidnewbie]

Comcast shut off my internet for a few hours, so I thought I'd explore a few hundred dungeons. I noticed a few things that seem at odds with what I saw in the dungeoneer code:

-I used adventurers to explore a mix of epic and normal dungeons. For any given normal dungeon, the odds of getting an immortal promotion should be about (.11 + .25) * (.02 +.25) = .36 * .27 = 9.72%. Out of two hundred explorations, I did not see that result at any point, ever. But,

-The odds of losing a normal unit on any given normal dungeon exploration event are .2 * .1 = 2%. I didn't lose any adventurers. That's not to say it can't happen, though, since I'd probably have to explore a thousand dungeons to effectively rule that out. However,

-I did find more items of power than I'd ever seen before.

-As far as I can tell, normal dungeons use the marnokdungeoneerbiggood function and epic dungeons use a seperate, explorelairbiggood function. The latter, it turns out, has results for bonus resources, which can't happen in any of the tiles an epic dungeon would occupy, and so end up bumping the odds for a jade torc result by 15%. I also didn't get any jade torcs, rods of wind, timor masks or great adventurers, since I guess they're failing their can receive checks, which adds another 25% to the odds of the next result, GOODY_EXPLORE_LAIR_PRISONER_ARTIST.

Here's a list of epic dungeon results, using level 50+ (to eliminate bad results) adventurer/hero units:

Total: 120
Golden Age: 79
Great Bard: 24
Great Engineer: 5
Great Merchant: 3
Great Prophet: 2
Great Sage: 2
Gold: 2
Great Commander: 1
Map for Treasure Chest: 1
Supplies: 1

There probably ought to be a more interesting ultimate reward. Anyways, that's all I had time for today. If anyone's interested in trying the same thing, let me know and I'll upload my test savegame and save you a few minutes of work.

 

[Sarisin]

I've been logging the results of lair/dungeon explorations DURING my game. I find my results with the epic lairs to be very similar to yours, although I am getting about a 60% chance of very bad guys rather than something good.

The regular lairs/dungeons are worse. I am still running about 80% bad results over good. Again, my criterion for a bad result is if my explorer is killed/lost/damaged. Of those 80% bad results a little more than 70% is stuff coming out of the lairs, and of those, 90% are Orc Warriors, anywhere from 1 to 6 of them.

In my current game, I am playing FF+ d'Tesh and they are the supremo explorers. Just build a couple of Scouts and let them go. They are invisible and cannot be killed by the bad results coming out of lairs (although they do get damaged).

I honestly don't see much of a difference at all with units that have the promotions that are supposed to give better results. I always have at least one unit with 2 of the 3 (Adventurer and Courage) as they both come from an explored lair...along with the worthless Valor.

Looking at the results, I cannot say definitively there is a bug, but the results need more variety - too much gold and too many Orc Warriors.

 

[Sarisin]

Well, the case of the unbuildable Boar Riders continues. I was unable to build them playing as Khazad and Luchuirp despite having all the requirements.

Apparently, the rules are different for the AI. See screenshot.

Has anyone been able to build this unit?

 

[acestealth]

Hey all. Love FFH2 and hope to enjoy FF after hopefully a minor problem resolution. I did a fresh install of FFH2 .41 into my Beyond the Sword mod folder following along with the instructions given below.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=322763

I did not do a fresh install of civ 4 and beyond the sword, but it is updated to final build status which if i recall was 3.17. (I had up till this update been playing FFH2 v.40 with patch Y i believe, which i remade into a backup in case of problems prior to fresh install)

As i attempted to install patch a for FFH2 .41 It couldn't detect FFH2 .41, I recall having this problem before, and think it had something to do with having a direct to drive version of civ 4 and bts. I simply manually extracted and overwrote the necessary files to the fresh FFH2 .41 folder. FFH2 with patch a works fine, but now I have the same issue trying to install FF, it cannot detect the source files of FFH2 it needs and therefore won't install correctly. Unfortunately I don't think manual copying FFH2, renaming to fall further, and overwriting with FF will work while foregoing the source files as something will probably conflict in that case, although that will be the next step I try when I get back from work if I find no workable alternatives here. Any help would be appreciated, thanks and great work to all moders involved.

 

[WarKirby]

Fall Further is a seperate mod, not an expansion.

To install it, you can do the same as you did for FFH. It goes in it's own folder.
Then you just need to copy the .fpk files from assets/art in the FFH directory, into the same directory for FF

And after doing that, install my unofficial patch.

 

[acestealth]

Attempted to install like you said War, and when attempting to start it errors out when trying to load xmls. Note that when installing with the manual copying it also lacks an exe file to start fall further directly, so i attempted to load it within civ 4, not sure if that matters.

To show a step by step of what i did to try and install.
Started FF 050 installer to bts mod folder, ignore inability to read source files, copy pak0.fpk file from FFH to same place (assets folder) of FF 050, overwrite art/xml folders with your patch.

 

[stupidnewbie]

I've been logging the results of lair/dungeon explorations DURING my game. I find my results with the epic lairs to be very similar to yours, although I am getting about a 60% chance of very bad guys rather than something good.

The regular lairs/dungeons are worse. I am still running about 80% bad results over good. Again, my criterion for a bad result is if my explorer is killed/lost/damaged. Of those 80% bad results a little more than 70% is stuff coming out of the lairs, and of those, 90% are Orc Warriors, anywhere from 1 to 6 of them.

In my current game, I am playing FF+ d'Tesh and they are the supremo explorers. Just build a couple of Scouts and let them go. They are invisible and cannot be killed by the bad results coming out of lairs (although they do get damaged).

I honestly don't see much of a difference at all with units that have the promotions that are supposed to give better results. I always have at least one unit with 2 of the 3 (Adventurer and Courage) as they both come from an explored lair...along with the worthless Valor.

Looking at the results, I cannot say definitively there is a bug, but the results need more variety - too much gold and too many Orc Warriors.

Spoiler alert, the odds of getting a good result from an epic lair are 50-50, modified by 1 per level of the exploring unit. So, a level 50 unit will always get a good result. Adventurer/Courage/Hero don't help here.

Normal dungeons look like a base of 75% bad results, mainly thanks to the civspecific, alignspecific and religionspecific result categories that don't really contain anything and default to a barbarian spawn if they get picked. If you have all the exploration promotions, however, you should get bad results "only" 45% of the time.

Spoiler :

If you're tired of all the bears and orcs, you can remove the useless categories from the python in assets\python\entrypoints\cvspellinterface.py. Look for the following:

def spellMarnokDungeoneer(caster):
	iPlayer = caster.getOwner()
	pPlot = caster.plot()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
	iRnd = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Primary Dungeon Result List")
	iRnd += caster.getNoBadExplore()/2
	iDestroyLair=100
	
	if iRnd < 21:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBadRandom(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 21 and iRnd < 30:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBigBad(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 30 and iRnd < 40:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerMonster(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 40 and iRnd < 50:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerRandomStuff(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 50 and iRnd < 65:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerCivSpecific(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 65 and iRnd < 70:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerAlignSpecific(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 70 and iRnd < 75:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerReligionSpecific(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 75 and iRnd < 90:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerGood(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 90:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBigGood(caster)

And change it to something like this:

def spellMarnokDungeoneer(caster):
	iPlayer = caster.getOwner()
	pPlot = caster.plot()
	pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
	iRnd = CyGame().getSorenRandNum(100, "Primary Dungeon Result List")
	iRnd += caster.getNoBadExplore()/2
	iDestroyLair=100
	
	if iRnd < 21:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBadRandom(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 21 and iRnd < 30:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBigBad(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 30 and iRnd < 40:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerMonster(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 40 and iRnd < 50:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerRandomStuff(caster)
	[b]elif iRnd >= 50 and iRnd < 90:[/b]
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerGood(caster)
	elif iRnd >= 90:
		iDestroyLair = MarnokDungeoneerBigGood(caster)

Arguably, it's cheating, but there's only one civ entry (elohim) in the civspecific, nothing at all in religionspecific, and nothing for neutrals in alignspecific which, to me, makes it seem like there are supposed to be good results, but it just isn't finished.

 

[readercolin]

I was recently playing a game in FF (Actually Era and Better AI, but as far as I am aware the modmod hasn't touched what I am asking about) as the Calibam, trying to get them to finally work for me. For once, I was doing extremely well, though part of that was due to an excessively OP start. My capital was located on 18 squares of flood plains (though they didn't all start out that way ), and I had govenors manor and a size of around 40. Running the govenors manor gave me 40 hammers, and I decided to build pillar of chains in it, figuring that would double it up to 80. Not so - pillar of chains put in, and there was no boost to hammer production.

So I ask - is pillar of chains supposed to work for the Calibam? Or is it there as a world wonder much like the city of 1000 slums is - to give other races the ability to use one race's special ability?

-Colin

 

[WarKirby]

To show a step by step of what i did to try and install.
Step 1: Started FF 050 installer to bts mod folder, ignore inability to read source files,
Step 2: ?????
Step 3:copy pak0.fpk file from FFH to same place (assets folder) of FF 050,
Step 4verwrite art/xml folders with your patch.

yep, you#ve missed something. You need to install the FF patch n, too. then reinstall my unofficial patch.

 

[xienwolf]

Pillar of Chains is like CoaTS, useless for one civ except in denying other people access to their unique aspect.

 

[readercolin]

Thanks Xienwolf. I have one other question. Why are many of my units randomly gaining heroic defense 1? There is no mutate or anything on them, and it will be brand new units starting out with it or older units randomly getting it while just sitting around in cities. This is running aristocracy, consumption, military state and agrarianism as the calibam (had it happen running order, empyrian, and OO, all in different games).

-Colin

 

[acestealth]

yep, you#ve missed something. You need to install the FF patch n, too. then reinstall my unofficial patch.

Ya tried it that way too. Its vexing.

 

[Sephi]

Thanks Xienwolf. I have one other question. Why are many of my units randomly gaining heroic defense 1? There is no mutate or anything on them, and it will be brand new units starting out with it or older units randomly getting it while just sitting around in cities. This is running aristocracy, consumption, military state and agrarianism as the calibam (had it happen running order, empyrian, and OO, all in different games).

-Colin

that's 99,9% not a FF bug, rather a bug/feature of my modmod. You should only have this effect with the defense mastery tech. weird.

 

[readercolin]

Ahh, thanks Sephi. As to how I was getting it - I was playing team with me as Calibam and my girlfriend as the Ljosfalter. As the elves get defensive mastery, that was probably where I ended up getting it from.

-Colin

 

[Sephi]

good to know it is a feature and not a bug

 

[civ_king]

heads up, new BTS patch has arrived, no this isn't a prank...

 

[shoggi]

I don't know if this is really a bug or a feature, but it is interesting.
My last game i wanted to try the austrin new "prepare expedition" mechanic . I had fun with the game, until i got terribly owned, but thats not the problem.

What i noticed is the interaction between their worldspell and the groupspawning of barbarians.
I just noticed a very highleveled Orthus walking through clanlands into my direction and when he entered my borders i used the worldspell in vain hope to build a little more defense.
He was accompanied by two goblins.
Now Orthus and one of the goblins got held 2 turns, the other goblin 5 turns.
But the whole stack didn't move until all of them could move again. This worked in my favor, but i'm not sure if it is intended this way.
I don't really know how the AI handles stacks. Maybe they didn't move because the stack was so small and maybe a bigger stack would have split.
But i thought i mention it here.

 

[xienwolf]

I had written code a long time ago so that setting a unit to HELD or IMMOBILE or CANNOT ATTACK type of effects should remove them from any group, but I never prevented them from being placed back into a group while the status persists that I can remember. I'll have to check precisely how this particular spell stops the units to make sure it isn't something new, and that my previous code is working)

 

[Sarisin]

This screenshot happens to be from my FF+ game, but you still see this often in FF too where the AI will inexplicably pick a city (not always Acheron's) and just load up on defenders. In this case there are 17, but I have seen more.

Yet, often you see the AI barbs capture a city and immediately move out the units allowing it to be re-captured. Why not leave a few defenders, or even just raze the city instead of giving it up. Honestly, my vote is for the barbs to raze EVERY city they take. They can always spawn new ones any time (and they do prolifically), so why not let them level any they take?

Finally, by letting the AI raze everything and move on, I think you would have a much better raging barb game. You shouldn't see them with 17 defenders in a city either - unless maybe it is Acheron's.

Maybe it is more balance than bug, but I think the bug part comes in when you have the barbs just vacating many cities they capture and leaving them wide open.