Fall Further Plus

[WarKirby]

Honestly, I'm becoming tempted to remove experience sharing entirely. The ability to duel repeatedly and build up massive units wouldn't be so bad then..... you're only getting 2xp per duel. Still alot, but it's not going to get you an amazing unit very quickly. If I could have it ignore units who duel it would work too...

Maybe have dueling apply an effect promo, with some specific duration, that block's it's xp from counting? As well as toning down the amount of xp gained from dueling after a certain level?

I'm thinking, just a hard cap on the amount of xp share you can start with.

It makes sense to start with 6-8 for instance, and allows doviello to produce decent units quickly if they keep the pack focused. It's just a bit silly when newly built units can start with over 50xp

I'd say, tone down xp sharing a bit, and hard cap it at 12xp on unit creation, or some similar number. I like it, and I'd rather not see it removed entirely.


On another note, I'm finding limited upgrade options for some units lamentable. I wanted to upgrade my super scout into a horseman. And I could do so, but I thought I'd make him a hunter first, and now the horseman option is removed.

Might I suggest making cross-unitcombat upgrading a bit more fluid? Like allowing hunters to become axemen and horsemen. Maybe even just for doviello, to represent their flexibility and on-the-fly tactics.

 

[Valkrionn]

I don't know about some of them, but I know I'll be allowing axemen(or was it champions?) to upgrade to Chariots, as in FfH.... Certain other upgrade paths if they make sense.

And a hard cap could work. Should even be reasonably easy to implement. Still going to have to tone down xp from duels. Or maybe compare unit strengths, and if it's too weak not grant anything?

 

[Milaga]

Eventually, WK, your uber-scout will win the duel but succumb to his injuries. It happened to my scout after about 550xp. Then I had to start aaaaall over.

I would say cap them both. After 100xp (or so) you can't gain anymore xp from a duel. And perhaps the most you can gain from xp sharing is 10 xp.

Once you start building a bunch of units the amount of xp you get from shared xp drops sharply. So maybe it doesn't even need a cap but a tweak to the formula.

 

[xienwolf]

I would place the cap on starting XP as a Per Unit cap. Then if you have 10 melee units EACH at 150 XP, you can start out with up to 25XP free on new units, but if you have a SINGLE unit who is at 150 XP you can only start out with up to 3XP on new units. Then a player with an elite fighting force rampaging around the lands gets decent replacement troops lined up, and a player 'sploiting gets jack diddly. (It'd be bloody hard to get 25 out the gate with 10+ units actually running around anyway I imagine, didn't check the formula used, but I imagine it'd require a heck of a lot more than a 150 per unit average)

 

[WarKirby]

Eventually, WK, your uber-scout will win the duel but succumb to his injuries. It happened to my scout after about 550xp. Then I had to start aaaaall over.

Oh, it did.
The reload option comes in handy

I like Brigit though. She got that result once "Your unit has succumbed to it's injuries" and being immortal, she just respawned instantly, and still got the xp

 

[ICanHasName?]

You could just give the whole mechanic to someone who doesn't have duel, such as the Chislev, without having to do any nerfing. The doviello really dont seem like the kind of people who voluntarily share anything anyway lol.

 

[Valkrionn]

That's pretty much exactly what I'll do if I end up taking it away from the Doviello.... Going to try balancing it first, though.

 

[Vehem]

You could just give the whole mechanic to someone who doesn't have duel, such as the Chislev, without having to do any nerfing. The doviello really dont seem like the kind of people who voluntarily share anything anyway lol.

I was actually just thinking that the XP sharing would be a better thematic fit than duelling for the Doviello in anycase - the whole "pack mentality" thing... If the pack is strong, new units start strong too. I kinda see the Doviello as alway "meaning it" when they fight, so they'd need a good reason to do so...

 

[WarKirby]

I was actually just thinking that the XP sharing would be a better thematic fit than duelling for the Doviello in anycase - the whole "pack mentality" thing... If the pack is strong, new units start strong too. I kinda see the Doviello as alway "meaning it" when they fight, so they'd need a good reason to do so...

But the doviello lore mentions honorable duels in a few places. One that I distinctly remember is the War Machine pedia entry. And the doviello#s aversion to stealth is referenced in mahala's entry too. I'd say it's definitely a thematically appropriate mechanic for them. MC was the first to suggest it, and he knows his stuff.

 

[Vehem]

But the doviello lore mentions honorable duels in a few places. One that I distinctly remember is the War Machine pedia entry. And the doviello#s aversion to stealth is referenced in mahala's entry too. I'd say it's definitely a thematically appropriate mechanic for them. MC was the first to suggest it, and he knows his stuff.

Aye - the duels definitely take place, but they have a place within Doviello society, notably as a method of selecting leaders... The in-game incarnation of the mechanic promotes scrapping away in the duelling pit like a gladiator more than seeing off challengers in honourable combat.

The main reason I favour the pack mechanic though is that it's a lot more interesting gameplaywise and encourages you to play to the Doviello strengths (early and sustained aggression) rather than nursing an uberunit through 100 turns of duels...

 

[scutarii]

playing with legion of D'tesh.

Stoogies won't get xp from fights but from passive xp.

Can't upgrade chosen of d'tesh units in spite of meeting all prereq's

Shrine of sironia's spell HEALS undead - that's weird, it should damage them, right?

with Republic civic no elections for legion.

Overall, most of lvl3 summoning spells are not worth of investment. ( Summoners excluded, of course)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I've never really understood why FF removes the bCasterMustBeAlive prereq from Sirona's Touch.

 

[Valkrionn]

Yeah, I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the Doviello just yet. To be honest, I haven't done more than look at the code for the past two days. Was a pain getting the last project working correctly....

And now that I have permission for the project, I might as well post here, so the testers can respond easier... I've imported the Mechanos from Orbis. Won't be quite the same, because the techtree is vastly different and most unitclasses have different base strengths, but it should get the feel of the civ. I've only added one tech (Alchemy), available to all civs and late game... Possibly too late. For most people, it opens up the Silver Circle. To compensate for it's move up the tech tree, the Wandering Sages (now Alchemists) gain the Transmute ability, like the lizard priests. I'm considering making it a full guild, and putting the Master Enchanter/Alchemist into the guild.

For the Mechanos, Alchemy opens up their Power Plant UB, adds yields to the Refinery improvement, and allows their Berserker UU, the Grenadier. The majority of their powerful units will be along the Siege line... They get the Howitzer cannon UU, the Trebuchet like the Dwarves, and the Steam Tank, a 15 siege unit shared by the Mechanos and Dwarves. They both also gain the Ironclad Man-o-war UU... All these are straight from Orbis.

Anyway, next release will be a main version, including the Orbis, and several other major features. Should be about another week though.

 

[xienwolf]

All you poor bastages that actually PLAY the game will get so confused with all of the cross-importing of Civs

EDIT: Oh yeah, and all you poor bastages that get to play catch-up with my next code release too... suckers! (I mock you because I have to put up with writting and debugging the crap right now, and it SUCKS!)

 

[Valkrionn]

haha I know. Honestly, I've mostly stopped playing. I test my changes, and play one real game every week or two... And yet somehow, I still enjoy it.

For the testers: I apparently had a typo in the Refinery art define, and forgot to include the Refined Mana art folder. Just extract the attached folder in your FFPlus directory, overwriting the assets folder.

Edit:

EDIT: Oh yeah, and all you poor bastages that get to play catch-up with my next code release too... suckers! (I mock you because I have to put up with writing and debugging the crap right now, and it SUCKS!)

Yeah, not looking forward to that one......

 

[Milaga]

For the testers: I apparently had a typo in the Refinery art define, and forgot to include the Refined Mana art folder. Just extract the attached folder in your FFPlus directory, overwriting the assets folder.

There's a lot of other junk in that zip, is that supposed to be in the assets folder? Because just overwriting the assets folder doesn't fix the problem. The assets folder just has the art and the CIV4ArtDefines_Improvement.xml file.

EDIT: Okay, installing that other junk is not a good idea. But with just the assets folder I still can't start a new game and create a refinery in WB. Get the same CTD.

EDIT EDIT: I see the typo that you fixed. It was just changing "magicOrb.nif" to "magicorb.nif" but capitalization shouldn't matter for a filename, no?

EDIT EDIT EDIT: I don't think it has anything to do with the art. I swapped Citadel of Light art info with Refinery and I could place the citadels just fine (they looked like refineries on mana.) When I went to place a refinery with the citadel art, CTD.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT: I looked around the python and XML and I don't see anything out of place (then again, I don't really know what to look for.) Just to throw out some ideas ... I wouldn't be surprised if the problem is that the creation of a refinery changes that plot into a source for refined mana, which isn't really a mana type at all. It's more of a resource but I guess it has to be handled like mana so captured refineries can be pillaged to get to the mana beneath. Orbis might have code to keep the game from puking when this mana-but-not-mana resource is added and may have some effect on the interface or units on the tile. Like trying to update the mana chart in the upper left with this new mana resource.

Or perhaps it is another typo ... Orbis seems to like to use "rafined" instead of "refined" for this resource.

Also, while it may have nothing to do with this bug, when I looked at the Civilopedia entry for a power plant it said it provided Power (X) but instead of a lightning bolt for the X there was a target.

 

[Valkrionn]

All that should be inside the folder is the improvement artdefines, and the folder for the resource art. Shouldn't contain anything else.........

Actually, the typo changed a 0 to a o.... Numbers don't count as letters.

Yes, if you fixed the typo but didn't place the resource folder it will cause issues.

Ah, actually, looking around to make sure I didn't have a typo in the artdefine for the resource told me what was wrong. I didn't put it in the 'resources' folder inside art/terrain. Fixed file is up.


And yes, the power issue is because FF doesn't have a power icon. I haven't got around to messing with the res files yet....... I despise those things.

 

[Milaga]

All that should be inside the folder is the improvement artdefines, and the folder for the resource art. Shouldn't contain anything else.........

Actually, the typo changed a 0 to a o.... Numbers don't count as letters.

It was a capital O. I had to load it in my XML editor to be extra sure. Sometimes I miss the old days where zeros had slashes through the middle.

Oh, and all that extra junk was because I've been extracting Asset folders to my desktop all week. That must have been leftover from another RAR.

Fix works! Time to kick some Doviello+ butt!

 

[Valkrionn]

ah. Either way it caused a crash.

Explains alot lol. Couldn't figure out what extra stuff you were talking about.... And I'm glad it works.

 

[Valkrionn]

Ok, now that I've begun working again I have a question for you people...... Starting on the Adventurer spawning mechanic for the Grigori. I have two options for how I do this....

1. Run the chance for each city, only increasing the odds for buildings in that city, as with the Jotnar.
2. Spawn Adventurers in the Capital only, increasing the chance for each building in the empire, as with the Scions.

I'm leaning towards option 2, as I think it will run faster, but what do the rest of you think?


Edit: Btw, I believe I'm going to change Garrim to Arcane, rather than defender........ Seems to fit his lore better, and should be more useful.