Fall Further Plus

Next release I have a bigger font TGA to work with, so I'll put the power icon back. When I had added the ranged attack icon I wasn't sure I would be allowed to spill over into the next row yet (learned with the peace icons that it was fine though)
 
For the Adventurer spawning I prefer option 2. While it kinda make sense adventurers would be popping up all over the place, I think it makes more sense to have them show up in a centralized location.
 
I went with option 2 without waiting for any responses, Deadliver's came as I was finishing up. :lol:

It DOES need fine tuning, but it works reasonably well.

Initial spawn chance of 5.33%.... You get .25% per Museum, .5% per Tavern, and a full 1% per adventurers guild. For now, it DOES decay, because otherwise you could end up getting one every turn with enough buildings.... Great People costs increase anyway, so it's not a bad approximation.

Here's a working version... It does NOT remove them as a great person type yet, as I haven't got around to it. It just allows them to spawn. Works with Patch B OR the beta, for those who are testing the Mechanos. :lol: Just overwrite your assets folder.
 
Ah, it's an issue with the Legion. I'll fix it, and post the fix in his thread.

Edit: Very easy fix. I'd post a fixed file, but that would mean reverting quite a few changes..... For now, the bug is just going to have to stay, unless you can edit it yourself. To do so, open up CvSpellInterface.py, search for reqSlaveTradeBuy, and add the following line above all others:
Code:
pPlayer = gc.getPlayer(caster.getOwner())
 
There are now 3 options for the mana..... Wild Mana, Feral Mana, and Mana Guardians.

Wild Mana is basically as it is now, although there is no chance for a guardian to spawn.

Feral Mana will convert all but around 4% of mana into the various mana types.

Mana Guardian will spawn guardians on ALL manas.
 
So I just got to the point in my test game where it was time to take out a 2nd civ...and I built a trebuchet to soften up city defenses for my axemen and techpriests.


It wasn't until I attacked with it that I realized that it had affinity: refined mana. :eek:


Power 7 trebuchet + 400% bonus vs. city = effective power 35? :crazyeye:


What I expected to be a long slog has turned into a whirlwind tour of his cities. One tap with old faithful and then cleanup the battered survivors.

Seems...a bit much. Maybe tone down the bonus to city attack?

Also, would be neat if affinity affected ranged attack. Don't know if that is possible....
 
I'm playing a game as doviello now, not using the duel/xp share exploit this time. Still rampaging all over the world.

I find the thing that's helped me most, is running undercouncil and upgrading slaves. The animals were nice, but mainly the "mark of.." promotions were useful. Actual animal spawning rarely was, except for one powerful wolf pack I got when only wolves were spawning.

Perhaps it has something to do with the poor capital location, and resulting bad production, but I found that I couldn't really build the dens fast enough for them to be useful.. Also, I think mammoths should be stronger, but come later. Str8 seems like a lot, but with no defensive bonuses, and a penalty to city attack, it's a lot less. Also, animals don't get any xp share experience, can't duel, and there doesn't seem to be any way to level them up outside of combat, so I found them overall inferior to footsoldiers. A lv4 Son of Asena is more useful than a lv1 mammoth rider I'd say, and I can get either without having to fight a single battle

Also, I began to regret building the stag copse after a while. Spells like haste, treetop defence, etc, are good, but you only need one unit in a stack to cast them. My stag spawn rates went through the roof, and I ended up with hundreds of the little buggers. Str 3, and not really good for much. I couldn't even seem to combine them into a Stag herd, which was disappointing consideringI could do the same with wolves. I also couldn't see any way to upgrade them to Elks. Perhaps it can be done through levelling, but getting xp for a str3 unit isn't easy beyond the first 100 turns or so.

I got the bear/lion/griffin things too late to be of much use, it seems. The build costs on them really are a bit much, especially with flavourmod's decision to dump me in an icy highland with not a single flat land or river in sight. I had to run a windmill economy for most of the game just to break even on food, and my capital grew VEEEERY slowly.

I will say though, that although I didn't get much use out of bears, the mark of the bear promo is quite useful, being that it's essentially free March. It also leads to Bear Kin after only combat III, which gives +1 str. Might be a bit powerful.

but only a select few of my units ever got the animal promos. 90% of my army now is battlemasters upgraded from slaves. It was the only thing that could provide the raw power and easy availability needed for my rampage across erebus. The animals were kind of left in the dust, except for one of the first wolves I ever got, later upgraded into a str10 Wolf pack with Empower V. That was mainly because of there being nothing but wolves early on. haven't managed to get such numbers of any specific animal since.

In general though, the mammoth spawn rate seems a little high. Mammoth riders certainly do look intimidating, but they were still disappointingly ineffective. I'd rather see mammoths made later, more powerful, and rarer.

It'd be nice if normal troops could go to where you've built the animal dens, and "bond" with the animals, to recieve the "mark of.." promotion. It's a bit limiting to only be able to get them from units built in those cities. And it means cramming them all into one city is the only way to get the full potential out of it.


Also, as an Aside, a notable bug.

It seems that the Doviello's +1 :food: on ice also applies to hills, meaning that I get the same food output from ice hills and ice flatlands. however, it doesn't work with Ancient Forest. Although that gives +1 food in the tile, an ice hills tile with AF on it was still only giving 1 food. It worked on the flatlands though, but I just wonder if this is how it's supposed to work. Seems strange.
 
Hee hee. You could give the Grand Menagerie a huge bonus to training rate and cap for animals and beasts :p Would make the Doviello positivly lust after that wonder, even though with the animals spawning for them it is rather trivial to get it I imagine (well, I don't think they spawn Tigers and Gorillas, so maybe just as hard as it is for anyone else then, since those are the sticking points)
 
More Mechanos thoughts:


1. They should be blocked from researching Divination/Alteration/etc... and Priesthood (and all subsequent techs). I want to pop an extra Great Sage for a tech...but it keeps offering to give me techs I can't use. :mad:

2. A Mechanos-only tech or tech path that requires KOTE and philosophy would be neat. Could hide some of their unique units there, along with other steam-flavored stuff.

3. Flavored mana from the castle makes no sense. Copper is a balance problem. Maybe give them 1 refined mana, clockworks (random resource for +1 happy, like linens), and blasting powder? Engineer GPP would also work.

4. Blimp can only be built in a coastal city. Mechanos should be able to build them even if landlocked. Also, they can't strafe land units. Kinda lame, although obviously it is because they are a naval unit.

5. Would be neat for Mechanos melee units had a gunpowder art theme, even if they are mechanically unchanged. Blunderbusses, pistols...heck maybe even a chainsaw on the champion.

6. A mechanical foot soldier would be cool.
 
Hee hee. You could give the Grand Menagerie a huge bonus to training rate and cap for animals and beasts :p Would make the Doviello positivly lust after that wonder, even though with the animals spawning for them it is rather trivial to get it I imagine (well, I don't think they spawn Tigers and Gorillas, so maybe just as hard as it is for anyone else then, since those are the sticking points)

As I recall, it requires a lion, tiger, bear, gorilla, and wolf

bears wolves and lions can be spawned by doviello, yes. But they're the most common animals in the wild anyway. Hardly difficult to find.

Gorillas are the rarest, and can't be spawned like that. Finding them is still very hard.

Also, the grand menagerie is about putting animals in cages. Somehow, I don't think it quite fits...
 
So I just got to the point in my test game where it was time to take out a 2nd civ...and I built a trebuchet to soften up city defenses for my axemen and techpriests.


It wasn't until I attacked with it that I realized that it had affinity: refined mana. :eek:


Power 7 trebuchet + 400% bonus vs. city = effective power 35? :crazyeye:


What I expected to be a long slog has turned into a whirlwind tour of his cities. One tap with old faithful and then cleanup the battered survivors.

Seems...a bit much. Maybe tone down the bonus to city attack?

Also, would be neat if affinity affected ranged attack. Don't know if that is possible....

Don't think I CAN tone down the bonus without gimping the Khazad. Only thing I can think of is to remove the affinity, allow the Khazad to build refined mana as well and remove the city attack, make a new Trebuchet UU, or remove city attack from ALL siege and up their strength, which I don't really want to do.

I'm playing a game as doviello now, not using the duel/xp share exploit this time. Still rampaging all over the world.

I find the thing that's helped me most, is running undercouncil and upgrading slaves. The animals were nice, but mainly the "mark of.." promotions were useful. Actual animal spawning rarely was, except for one powerful wolf pack I got when only wolves were spawning.

The old mechanic is still sometimes the best. :lol:

Perhaps it has something to do with the poor capital location, and resulting bad production, but I found that I couldn't really build the dens fast enough for them to be useful.. Also, I think mammoths should be stronger, but come later. Str8 seems like a lot, but with no defensive bonuses, and a penalty to city attack, it's a lot less. Also, animals don't get any xp share experience, can't duel, and there doesn't seem to be any way to level them up outside of combat, so I found them overall inferior to footsoldiers. A lv4 Son of Asena is more useful than a lv1 mammoth rider I'd say, and I can get either without having to fight a single battle

If you build a Son of Asena in the city with the Mammoth Den, and get it to level 5 out of the gate, you can combine it with a Mammoth to get a lvl 5 mammoth rider. :lol:

I'm actually thinking of an Trainer uu.... Allows animals to learn new promotions, and gives them some xp each turn they're in his stack.

Also, I began to regret building the stag copse after a while. Spells like haste, treetop defence, etc, are good, but you only need one unit in a stack to cast them. My stag spawn rates went through the roof, and I ended up with hundreds of the little buggers. Str 3, and not really good for much. I couldn't even seem to combine them into a Stag herd, which was disappointing consideringI could do the same with wolves. I also couldn't see any way to upgrade them to Elks. Perhaps it can be done through levelling, but getting xp for a str3 unit isn't easy beyond the first 100 turns or so.

For now, they can be spawned after researching priesthood..... I think the trainer unit will allow them to upgrade.

I got the bear/lion/griffin things too late to be of much use, it seems. The build costs on them really are a bit much, especially with flavourmod's decision to dump me in an icy highland with not a single flat land or river in sight. I had to run a windmill economy for most of the game just to break even on food, and my capital grew VEEEERY slowly.

Think I'll drop the price. I tried to keep them up there with wonders, but after a few games of my own, I think it's too high.

I will say though, that although I didn't get much use out of bears, the mark of the bear promo is quite useful, being that it's essentially free March. It also leads to Bear Kin after only combat III, which gives +1 str. Might be a bit powerful.

Supposed to be, really. I tend to build units in my den cities so I can get some nice armies going, but the Bear Den requires smelting, so I don't have a problem with a good bonus from it.

but only a select few of my units ever got the animal promos. 90% of my army now is battlemasters upgraded from slaves. It was the only thing that could provide the raw power and easy availability needed for my rampage across erebus. The animals were kind of left in the dust, except for one of the first wolves I ever got, later upgraded into a str10 Wolf pack with Empower V. That was mainly because of there being nothing but wolves early on. haven't managed to get such numbers of any specific animal since.

In general though, the mammoth spawn rate seems a little high. Mammoth riders certainly do look intimidating, but they were still disappointingly ineffective. I'd rather see mammoths made later, more powerful, and rarer.

Maybe I'll add wolves, lions, and bears to the spawn list twice, so they'll spawn more often?

It'd be nice if normal troops could go to where you've built the animal dens, and "bond" with the animals, to recieve the "mark of.." promotion. It's a bit limiting to only be able to get them from units built in those cities. And it means cramming them all into one city is the only way to get the full potential out of it.

Think I'll let it be gained by sacrificing an animal.

Also, as an Aside, a notable bug.

It seems that the Doviello's +1 :food: on ice also applies to hills, meaning that I get the same food output from ice hills and ice flatlands. however, it doesn't work with Ancient Forest. Although that gives +1 food in the tile, an ice hills tile with AF on it was still only giving 1 food. It worked on the flatlands though, but I just wonder if this is how it's supposed to work. Seems strange.

Yeah, I have no idea what would be causing that........ It's one for Jean to look at. :lol: As it is, they don't have food on ice much longer.
 
More Mechanos thoughts:


1. They should be blocked from researching Divination/Alteration/etc... and Priesthood (and all subsequent techs). I want to pop an extra Great Sage for a tech...but it keeps offering to give me techs I can't use. :mad:

2. A Mechanos-only tech or tech path that requires KOTE and philosophy would be neat. Could hide some of their unique units there, along with other steam-flavored stuff.

3. Flavored mana from the castle makes no sense. Copper is a balance problem. Maybe give them 1 refined mana, clockworks (random resource for +1 happy, like linens), and blasting powder? Engineer GPP would also work.

4. Blimp can only be built in a coastal city. Mechanos should be able to build them even if landlocked. Also, they can't strafe land units. Kinda lame, although obviously it is because they are a naval unit.

5. Would be neat for Mechanos melee units had a gunpowder art theme, even if they are mechanically unchanged. Blunderbusses, pistols...heck maybe even a chainsaw on the champion.

6. A mechanical foot soldier would be cool.

1. Yeah, need to do that... I just don't like blocking techs.

2. Honestly, Alchemy was originally Steam Power, requiring KotE. I moved it so I could put high end stuff there, but might re-add it.

3. Agreed. I like your suggestions there, too......

4. Need to fix that, should be buildable anywhere.

5. That would need art. :lol:

As I recall, it requires a lion, tiger, bear, gorilla, and wolf

bears wolves and lions can be spawned by doviello, yes. But they're the most common animals in the wild anyway. Hardly difficult to find.

Gorillas are the rarest, and can't be spawned like that. Finding them is still very hard.

Also, the grand menagerie is about putting animals in cages. Somehow, I don't think it quite fits...

I agree... I gave them a way to accomplish it with the Animal Kindred spell, but that's all I'll do.
 
Don't think I CAN tone down the bonus without gimping the Khazad. Only thing I can think of is to remove the affinity, allow the Khazad to build refined mana as well and remove the city attack, make a new Trebuchet UU, or remove city attack from ALL siege and up their strength, which I don't really want to do.

Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.

The old mechanic is still sometimes the best. :lol:

Yes, though I do wonder if it's TOO good. Eventually, I was running research at 50% to support a vast gold income, and upgrading several battlemasters every turn. The upgrade spells do feel a bit cheap. Although I suppose it's countered by their not having any xp when taken from slaves. I mostly used them as cannon fodder or defenders for newly taken cities, while my more elite army moved on.


If you build a Son of Asena in the city with the Mammoth Den, and get it to level 5 out of the gate, you can combine it with a Mammoth to get a lvl 5 mammoth rider. :lol:

I didn't know this...

I was able to upgrade mammoths into mammoth riders without requiring any other unit. This is a bit counterintuitive.

I'd suggest maybe, making it require a unit to join with the mammoth.

As it is, they don't have food on ice much longer.

?

Surely you're not planning on removing that 1:food: ? It's all that kept me alive, without it my empire would have fallen apart before it ever started.
 
Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.

Yeah, this. Just copy and paste. Don't need to add a new unitclass or anything.


If the same art for two functionally different units bothers you grab the Hwacha art. :)
 
Just give them their own UU already. It's the best solution by far.
Messing with khazad goes a bit beond scope, I'd say. Not that I have a problem with tweaks to khazad if you'd like to do that, but it seems pointlessly complex. Give mechanos their own UU for this situation.

That probably would be the easiest solution. :lol:

Yes, though I do wonder if it's TOO good. Eventually, I was running research at 50% to support a vast gold income, and upgrading several battlemasters every turn. The upgrade spells do feel a bit cheap. Although I suppose it's countered by their not having any xp when taken from slaves. I mostly used them as cannon fodder or defenders for newly taken cities, while my more elite army moved on.

Yeah, might have to play with the costs in the end, but I'm not really planning on it unless I have to. As it is, you get low-quality troops compared to what you train yourself.

I didn't know this...

I was able to upgrade mammoths into mammoth riders without requiring any other unit. This is a bit counterintuitive.

I'd suggest maybe, making it require a unit to join with the mammoth.

The Mark of the Mammoth promotion allows a 'Ride Mammoth' spell at level 5, allowing you to create a mammoth rider with promotions it wouldn't be able to get otherwise.

?

Surely you're not planning on removing that 1:food: ? It's all that kept me alive, without it my empire would have fallen apart before it ever started.

Wait, you were talking about snow. :lol: They keep that, although Tundra is gone.... Instead, they get bonus yields for a new improvement.
 
Wait, you were talking about snow. :lol: They keep that, although Tundra is gone.... Instead, they get bonus yields for a new improvement.

Tundra is gone?

Or are you removing the :food: yield from it?

As far as I remember, Tundra yields 1 :food: in general for everyone. And Doviello just get +1:hammers: from it too.
 
Yeah, this. Just copy and paste. Don't need to add a new unitclass or anything.


If the same art for two functionally different units bothers you grab the Hwacha art. :)

Hwacha would definitely fit
 
Back
Top Bottom