Fall Further Plus

[Riot_Starter]

The Incite Fervor spell icon isn't showing up. I have OO as my state religion and have zealots and cultists in multiple cities trying to get this to work (they all have OO in them). The Zealotry promotion works fine (including the annoying support cost ) and the 1 turn inquisition works, but incite fervor doesn't even show up as a choice to cast.

I looked at the python for the spell requirements and nothing jumps out at me as being wrong, but then again I don't know much about modding python. If you find out what the problem is could you post the code change?

 

[Valkrionn]

Honor actually is blocked, so I'm glad to hear you plan on moving defensive pacts.

2 - He's actually not too bad right now (judging from what the other monstrous creatures look like), but he will definitely need a nerf if you fix #6
6 - I wasn't necessarily suggesting that it need fixing. As it stands, single move archery units can pick up Blitz and do a ranged attack followed by a normal attack with only one movement, which is kind of cool. I just wanted to point out that it was a change, because a HUGE part of the Mechanos' strength in Orbis was the ability to make multiple ranged attacks in a round (that's most of what Machine Spirit is for, I believe).
8 - Really? Having some of those promotions on a melee unit was insane. Instant Blitz especially.

Also, I like the addition of shrimp (I have many ideas for more resources if you're ever interested. ), but can you change the yields at some point? Having all four coastal resources provide the exact same yields (okay, +1 food for fish) gets boring quickly.

Blitz is actually the only one I'm worried about, but I think I'll just block him from that one entirely. He's the only siege unit with the ability to get it naturally, after all.

Suggest away with resources, so long as you can find graphics. Been thinking about kelp, but then I'd have to distribute custom mapscripts... Which is still a possibility. And I'd change the yields, but there's not really much to change... None of them will provide hammers, so it's all food and commerce.

 

[Valkrionn]

The Incite Fervor spell icon isn't showing up. I have OO as my state religion and have zealots and cultists in multiple cities trying to get this to work (they all have OO in them). The Zealotry promotion works fine (including the annoying support cost ) and the 1 turn inquisition works, but incite fervor doesn't even show up as a choice to cast.

I looked at the python for the spell requirements and nothing jumps out at me as being wrong, but then again I don't know much about modding python. If you find out what the problem is could you post the code change?

Was working for me, but I may have goofed something somewhere. I'd load it up to look, but I'm pretty deep in leader xml right now. Going to have to get back to you on that one, sadly.

 

[WarKirby]

200 turns in so far, and I'm dominating.

I find mechanos fun, but rather un-challenging. Siege weapons with Refined mana affinity are incredibly powerful .It's like the best properties of an axeman and an archer, in one, They don't have the weakness that other siege weapons do, of a low combat strength. And there's almost no reason not to just make my entire army out of themn, except for a warrior to finish off the wounded anyd take cities.

Is it intended that they can still learn the Assault promotion? TYhat's insaely powerful for something with actual strength.

I still stand my my thoughts that siege weapons should have no combat strength at all, and be used purely for ranged attacks.

 

[far_wanderer]

Blitz is actually the only one I'm worried about, but I think I'll just block him from that one entirely. He's the only siege unit with the ability to get it naturally, after all.

Suggest away with resources, so long as you can find graphics. Been thinking about kelp, but then I'd have to distribute custom mapscripts... Which is still a possibility. And I'd change the yields, but there's not really much to change... None of them will provide hammers, so it's all food and commerce.

You could add Kelp as a production resource, not a feature. Shrimp, as a delicacy, could switch out two food for two commerce. There really isn't a problem with having a lot of food resources, I'd just like the coast to not be only food resources.

I am extraordinarily graphically challenged, to the point of not actually knowing what I have to look for, but I'll see what I can do. My main ideas are for trees, so if anyone has suggestions I'd welcome the assistance.

 

[Valkrionn]

Goofed when I put in the check to make sure you owned the city it's cast in. In CvSpellInterface.py, go to lines 8256 and 8261, and change pCity().getOwner() to pCity.getOwner(). For some stupid reason I left some parentheses.

 

[Valkrionn]

200 turns in so far, and I'm dominating.

I find mechanos fun, but rather un-challenging. Siege weapons with Refined mana affinity are incredibly powerful .It's like the best properties of an axeman and an archer, in one, They don't have the weakness that other siege weapons do, of a low combat strength. And there's almost no reason not to just make my entire army out of themn, except for a warrior to finish off the wounded anyd take cities.

Is it intended that they can still learn the Assault promotion? TYhat's insaely powerful for something with actual strength.

I still stand my my thoughts that siege weapons should have no combat strength at all, and be used purely for ranged attacks.

That's basically how to play them, honestly. They're all about the siege, and a little side trip for archers to defend, and blimps/zepps to raid.

It WAS intentional for Assault1, but after playing I think I'll block it as well. It's TOO strong for them.

I agree, for most civs. I just like exceptions to the rule. Same reason I love the Scions.

You could add Kelp as a production resource, not a feature. Shrimp, as a delicacy, could switch out two food for two commerce. There really isn't a problem with having a lot of food resources, I'd just like the coast to not be only food resources.

I am extraordinarily graphically challenged, to the point of not actually knowing what I have to look for, but I'll see what I can do. My main ideas are for trees, so if anyone has suggestions I'd welcome the assistance.

I'll change around some yields in the next patch. I'd still rather have Kelp as a feature though, so it'll spread... But then it might make seas too powerful. It works in Orbis because pop requires 3 food, rather than 2.

 

[xienwolf]

I am curious how ranged attacks work in Fall Further as currently released. Not sure what I have done since last release at all really.

In the next release version (If not the current one) you can do a ranged attack at any point in your turn, before or after moving, before or after attacking. Nothing (so far) can grant you additional ranged attacks, but non ranged attacks have no effect on ranged ones. I do know there was a small issue with them once upon a time, but all I can remember fixing recently was how the AI used them.

EDIT: If you are going to do a sea feature, Coral makes more sense than kelp I'd think. Can also convince yourself to let that one affect production values. Changing some of the sea resources to provide local happy/health instead of improved yields could also be a good move for variety.

 

[WarKirby]

I am curious how ranged attacks work in Fall Further as currently released. Not sure what I have done since last release at all really.

In the next release version (If not the current one) you can do a ranged attack at any point in your turn, before or after moving, before or after attacking. Nothing (so far) can grant you additional ranged attacks, . I do know there was a small issue with them once upon a time, but all I can remember fixing recently was how the AI used them.

You've forgotten how it works? or did vehem just never tell you?


At present, everything you stated above is true, except for:

but non ranged attacks have no effect on ranged ones

Presently, you can do either a normal OR a ranged attack. Not both in the same turn. Unless the unit has Blitz. A blitzing unit can still only ever do one ranged attack per turn, but it can also do as many normal attacks as it's movement allows.

Personally, I like it working this way. I don't really see a need for a change. It would only make the mechanos even more powerful if they could bombard then attack in the same turn, with the same unit.

 

[Valkrionn]

Ah, right now it's one kind of attack or the other. Sounds interesting.

Coral would be nice, actually... Wonder if I can find art for it.

 

[WarKirby]

I agree, for most civs. I just like exceptions to the rule. Same reason I love the Scions.

Well, it still makes no sense.

For the mechanos, I'd rather see them have affinity for their RANGED attack, so that their bombarding power increaseswith more refined mana.

I don't think there's any xml for that, so it would need some pythong. buit I think it would be a much fairer way for them to work.


On another note, I think Mortars should have 2 range. Otherwise, they don't seem much different from catapults. Perhaps less strength to counter, but a mortar was generally a long range artillery weapon, no?

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, it still makes no sense.

For the mechanos, I'd rather see them have affinity for their RANGED attack, so that their bombarding power increaseswith more refined mana.

I don't think there's any xml for that, so it would need some python. but I think it would be a much fairer way for them to work.


On another note, I think Mortars should have 2 range. Otherwise, they don't seem much different from catapults. Perhaps less strength to counter, but a mortar was generally a long range artillery weapon, no?

Eventually, I'd actually like to change the affinity to ranged attack. Thought about doing it in python, decided against it when Xienwolf detailed how he wants to change it. I'll just wait for him to implement the expanded affinity.


Meant to add that actually... Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Riot_Starter]

Valk, thanks for the quick reply and the fix. Works fine now.

Also, a small observation: the yarangas (sp?) are taking a long time to build because of the tundra/snow only build. For the doviello and others who don't have much time to waste early on extra workers, this could be a problem. Not sure if this was intended, but just something I noticed.

 

[WarKirby]

Meant to add that actually... Thanks for pointing it out.

Actually, having just built a master siegesmith, I thinking that rather than just having 2 range, they should just get Sighted Shot for free. So that you can't buy sighted shot and then get 3 range. That seems a bit much. It would also save a bit of money.

The strength penalty is also quite logical, given that it's pretty impossible to blast a unit of troops coming towards you, with a weapon designed for hitting targets miles away.


On another note, it seems that mortars can kill when directly attacking. You know how I feel about direct siege attacks anyways, but I think it should at least be consistent. They should have a damage limit like organ guns.

One more thing, why does the Doubletime Team promotion have a -50% strength penalty? That seems pretty unfair. You're already penalized enough having to pay for it. I don't think it needs any penalties, especially given that any non-mechanos civ can just get Force I, and speed up their siege weapons with neither gold cost, nor strength penalty.

 

[Valkrionn]

Valk, thanks for the quick reply and the fix. Works fine now.

Also, a small observation: the yarangas (sp?) are taking a long time to build because of the tundra/snow only build. For the doviello and others who don't have much time to waste early on extra workers, this could be a problem. Not sure if this was intended, but just something I noticed.

Woops, meant to increase Doviello build speed in Tundra. Will be in the patch.

Actually, having just built a master siegesmith, I thinking that rather than just having 2 range, they should just get Sighted Shot for free. So that you can't buy sighted shot and then get 3 range. That seems a bit much. It would also save a bit of money.

The strength penalty is also quite logical, given that it's pretty impossible to blast a unit of troops coming towards you, with a weapon designed for hitting targets miles away.


On another note, it seems that mortars can kill when directly attacking. You know how I feel about direct siege attacks anyways, but I think it should at least be consistent. They should have a damage limit like organ guns.

One more thing, why does the Doubletime Team promotion have a -50% strength penalty? That seems pretty unfair. You're already penalized enough having to pay for it. I don't think it needs any penalties, especially given that any non-mechanos civ can just get Force I, and speed up their siege weapons with neither gold cost, nor strength penalty.

Problem with a free sighted shot is that if you decide to buy a different shot, you lose it. I'll probably go with that anyway though.

Woops, good catch. Did a copy/paste of the steamtank infos, didn't mean to allow that.

Doubletime Team has a large penalty because I had intended to have it grant a spell, allowing you to add/remove it at will.... Of course, I obviously forgot to do that.

 

[WarKirby]

Problem with a free sighted shot is that if you decide to buy a different shot, you lose it. I'll probably go with that anyway though.

The answer here, is to move Sighted Shot out of that category then. "Sighted" is not an ammo type. You don't load "sight" into a cannon. That makes no sense. It's a peripheral function, usually from having a spotter on the battlefield marking targets.

So rename it Spotter, and make it a general promotion.

 

[Valkrionn]

I have it as a shot, because it's a powerful promotion. May end up moving it anyway, but if I do I'll increase it's costs.

 

[Valkrionn]

Alright, because I want people to see this one I'm going to give away one of the easter eggs. Check out the main menu screens. I've imported the new 'Thanks' screen from FfH, as well as making my own 'Steampunk' screen. I'm pretty satisfied with it. The artist has been credited in the credits list for around a week now, if you check.

 

[WarKirby]

main menu screens

I only see the normal FF one. are there others?

 

[Valkrionn]

There have always been others. Go to Advanced/Options/Graphics/Opening Menu.

You WILL have to either start a game and exit to the main menu, or exit altogether and reload in order to hear changed music, however. All menus have their own music, aside from FF/FfH main menus.

Up until I made my own, I used the Sphener menu.... Now I use the Steampunk. They're actually quite easy to make, although you have to turn them into a nif.