Fall Further Plus

[deadliver]

wait, khazad lose food from farms?

The dwarven improvements don't give a lot of food. certainly not enough to replace -1food from every farm. Why do that?

I'd also like to point out that the horribly overpowered Mechanos factory almost allows them to knock the Khazad off the top spot as greatest industrial faction. This change pushes it over the edge, and gives mechanos a clear advantage since their food ouput isn't crippled so they can now work more mines.

2 food from Dwarven fortresses is far from enough to make up the loss of food from farms, and food was already the khazad's biggest problem.

i'm not liking that change.

Perhaps instead, you could make them unable to adopt agrarianism? Since it's an inappropriate civic for them, it'd be a good idea I think. It would reduce their overall food potential, rather than their base food income.

I agree completely. The point about farming is a little weak because the dwarves get an extra bonus from breweries which in turn get commerce bonuses from farm resources.

Remember too that Khazad are limited by their gold supply and potential for weak farming in the first place (gawd how many times we have heard people complaining about weak Khazad farming in erebus maps for example).

edit: thanks for the patch btw, even if you turned out to be a dwarven farmer hater

 

[xienwolf]

What on earth is the resource in your font file just before refined mana?

 

[shoggi]

Shrimp i would guess.

 

[xartah]

FFplus crashes on me when I try to run it. The loading gets up to init XML when the "civ4 has stopped working" notification comes up. Tried it first on the 40z+FF050n installation I had, then a clean 41a+050n+unofficial patch, no change. Any ideas?

Might be the same "doesn't work on vista" problem that the rise of mankind - additions modmod has. Both crash at the same point when starting.

 

[WarKirby]

My unofficial patch wouldn't affect it, nor would your FFH version. and I'm not sure your FF version would even affect it, beyond some missing art. I'm not sure how much FF+ imports.

Does normal FF/FFH work for you ?

 

[Riot_Starter]

I'm also getting crashes on start-up. Stops consistently during InitXML. I did nothing except update with the new patch. Is the new FFH now required?

edit: Using Windows XP 64-bit. May be relevant with people mentioning Vista problems.

edit2: Tried a clean FFH2.1 w/ patch a, FF w/ patch n, and FFPlus w/ patch b. Exact same crash. Base FF and FFH work fine.

 

[Hankc]

Same problem with crashes over here too. FFH 0.41a, FF 0.50n. Orbis works fine, as dose base FF and FFH.

 

[far_wanderer]

So with the new patch making FF+ compatible with FFH .41a, does that mean it is now incompatible with .40z?

 

[jacktannery]

I have the same problem (crash whilst loading FFH.41a + FF.50n + FF+b). Like Xartah four posts up, I also got this problem with the RoM mod, however I use WindowsXP and not VISTA.

I tried deleting the cache and trying again but still not working.

 

[Tholal]

wait, khazad lose food from farms?

The dwarven improvements don't give a lot of food. certainly not enough to replace -1food from every farm. Why do that?

I haven't yet played a game of FF+, but I've played a number of games as Khazad on FfH2 and FF and never noticed any particular problems with food.

They need to have some sort of nerf to balance their new uber fort-mines.

 

[DarkReborn]

Same problem. I reinstalled FFH, FF and FF+ with their respective patches and same.

 

[Tholal]

What they can do very effectively is dispel and disrupt magic, as well as use it for their own mechanical ends. If we imagine that the spreading of Hell is a magical effect...perhaps they could tackle it using that angle? Perhaps they could build an improvement (disruption engine?) that suppresses hell in a radius? So the mechanos could have a national border dotted with roaring machines sucking up the entropic hell magic and converting it to energy to power said machines. They'd have to garrison and protect those tiles...because if the machines are pillaged the hell comes pouring in.

I think this idea could be really interesting. Is it possible to have these improvements upgrade over time so that they encompass a larger radius.

For example, I plop one down next to some hell terrain. Nothing happens for a few turns while it powers up, then it upgrades to stage 2 and sanctifies everything in a 1-tile radius and prevents hell terrain from spreading to those tiles. After XX turns, it upgrades to stage 3 and sanctifies everything within a 2 tile radius, and so on up to a 3-tile radius.

This allows them to affect a large enough area to be useful, but doesn't make them overpowered by having the full effect kick in immediately. This also allows the Mechanos to sort of leapfrog these improvements as they push back the hell terrain.

 

[far_wanderer]

I think this idea could be really interesting. Is it possible to have these improvements upgrade over time so that they encompass a larger radius.

For example, I plop one down next to some hell terrain. Nothing happens for a few turns while it powers up, then it upgrades to stage 2 and sanctifies everything in a 1-tile radius and prevents hell terrain from spreading to those tiles. After XX turns, it upgrades to stage 3 and sanctifies everything within a 2 tile radius, and so on up to a 3-tile radius.

This allows them to affect a large enough area to be useful, but doesn't make them overpowered by having the full effect kick in immediately. This also allows the Mechanos to sort of leapfrog these improvements as they push back the hell terrain.

Ooh, I like this idea, except for the few turns powering up bit (that's represented by building it). The 3-tile radius sounds a little bit too much, but maybe instead it could give some added bonuses against demons that are in range. There's a promotion somewhere that claims it's applied to angels and demons that get too close to the Seven Pines, maybe a weaker version of that could be used.

 

[Valkrionn]

Working on fixing the crash, it's caused by merging in the unofficial patch. Goofed somewhere.

 

[DarkReborn]

Working on fixing the crash, it's caused by merging in the unofficial patch. Goofed somewhere.

I had the same problem when I tried to merge it with the previous version. I might have failed at some point.

 

[Valkrionn]

Reuploaded Patch A for now. Still working on the issue.

 

[WarKirby]

A CTD on start is almost certainly an art error, then.

It worked for me, and nobody else has reported any problems so far. So I'm guessing it's something you've done in your merging process.

Are you using any art by me that was NOT included in the patch? like the Austrin champion, for example? The patch contained all art I was done and happy with. Any others might not have shaders set, which would crash the game.

 

[Valkrionn]

Believe I found the issue. Didn't copy over the artdefines for the Infernal/Merc heroes, even though I thought I did. Testing now, but it ran fine for me in the build version... Installing a fresh one to make sure.

 

[WarKirby]

Hey valk, your signature breaks pages for me. It's too wide

Could you possibly seperate it into two lines ?

 

[Valkrionn]

Patch B is back up, working fine now.

wait, khazad lose food from farms?

The dwarven improvements don't give a lot of food. certainly not enough to replace -1food from every farm. Why do that?

I'd also like to point out that the horribly overpowered Mechanos factory almost allows them to knock the Khazad off the top spot as greatest industrial faction. This change pushes it over the edge, and gives mechanos a clear advantage since their food ouput isn't crippled so they can now work more mines than Khazad can.

2 food from Dwarven fortresses is far from enough to make up the loss of food from farms, and food was already the khazad's biggest problem.

i'm not liking that change.

Perhaps instead, you could make them unable to adopt agrarianism? Since it's an inappropriate civic for them, it'd be a good idea I think. It would reduce their overall food potential, rather than their base food income.

First off, the point of the Dwarven Fortress is to allow them more production/commerce from LESS population, not more. Each tile is worth 3 or 4 others. In addition, now that Mushrooms are resources and are farmed by mines and the Dwarven replacements, they can potentially get up to 5 5 6, ignoring terrain bonuses.

I agree completely. The point about farming is a little weak because the dwarves get an extra bonus from breweries which in turn get commerce bonuses from farm resources.

Remember too that Khazad are limited by their gold supply and potential for weak farming in the first place (gawd how many times we have heard people complaining about weak Khazad farming in erebus maps for example).

edit: thanks for the patch btw, even if you turned out to be a dwarven farmer hater

Again, more with less.

What on earth is the resource in your font file just before refined mana?

Shrimp i would guess.

Yep, shrimp. You showed off your font file before I got around to fixing it with Warkirby's button art, so I just left it.

So with the new patch making FF+ compatible with FFH .41a, does that mean it is now incompatible with .40z?

Yes, sadly. New building art for the Fellowship.

I haven't yet played a game of FF+, but I've played a number of games as Khazad on FfH2 and FF and never noticed any particular problems with food.

They need to have some sort of nerf to balance their new uber fort-mines.

Exactly.

I think this idea could be really interesting. Is it possible to have these improvements upgrade over time so that they encompass a larger radius.

For example, I plop one down next to some hell terrain. Nothing happens for a few turns while it powers up, then it upgrades to stage 2 and sanctifies everything in a 1-tile radius and prevents hell terrain from spreading to those tiles. After XX turns, it upgrades to stage 3 and sanctifies everything within a 2 tile radius, and so on up to a 3-tile radius.

This allows them to affect a large enough area to be useful, but doesn't make them overpowered by having the full effect kick in immediately. This also allows the Mechanos to sort of leapfrog these improvements as they push back the hell terrain.

Only way to do this, without checking every tile on the map every turn for an improvement, would be a spell... But I have plans for it, again. Involving other plans, that depend on other plans...