Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Gelvan]

then it's clear now for me.
So I think they should not be able to build catacomb libralous and the great library neither
I'd say let them the hunting lodge, because they need the bonus it grant's - but maybe they need no archery because they have first strike spiders?

 

[woodelf]

A CTD...

I crashed in turn 187 originally and then went back to my save at 186 so I could save before the crash and now it crashes at turn 186.

I blame Vista more than anything. I doubt it will be helpful, but maybe eventually these sporadic CTDs can be resolved.

 

[xienwolf]

Finally getting a chance to play your mod!

2 thing I noticed so far: Blowpipe's button doesn't have the Alpha Layer set, so it shows a black border where it should have none. And Kohlsevahn doesn't have his Pedia entry linked properly. Though that could be due to me having a slightly outdated version, I swear I read you fixed something along those lines.

 

[Charybdis]

Not sure if this is the right place to suggest things. But maybe the spider in the mine event could have its own archos result if thats not too hard to work out?

 

[Vehem]

Finally getting a chance to play your mod!

2 thing I noticed so far: Blowpipe's button doesn't have the Alpha Layer set, so it shows a black border where it should have none. And Kohlsevahn doesn't have his Pedia entry linked properly. Though that could be due to me having a slightly outdated version, I swear I read you fixed something along those lines.

Aye - I've fixed the Pedia locally (ready for the next update). Will do likewise for the Blowpipe.

 

[BeefontheBone]

AI_DIPLO_ACCEPT_LEADER_DANMOS appears to be missing too, or possibly just pointing at the wrong entry.

 

[xaliger]

Hi Vehem,

just tried Mazatl with new 022 version and I cant build any temples, not even that lizard ones. So i cant build those lizard priests

In any case, good modmod! If you got time, come to visit #erebus, few your fans there

 

[Vehem]

Hi Vehem,

just tried Mazatl with new 022 version and I cant build any temples, not even that lizard ones. So i cant build those lizard priests

Thanks - made a mistake when I blocked the other religions. Sorted now.

 

[Vehem]

Patch B
1. Kolsehvahn 'pedia entry linked properly
2. Lizard Blowpipe button art fixed
3. Reported Dural diplo-text corrected (there may well be more - let me know)
4. Mazatl-specific temples can be built correctly again.

 

[Gaal]

I have an oddity for you.

It's probably related to some of these CTDs being experienced ~200 turns in.

Recently I decided to play a game where as early on as possible I would abandon my civilization to guide Hyborem into the world. However, as soon as I began my first new research in my new Infernal city, and quite likely right before the ground began to get ugly, I recieved a memory-read error and promptly ended up staring at my desktop.

I decided to try a few more games using the worldbuilder mode to transfer to the infernals at around turn 3-7 and experienced the same thing. My current theory (and it's only a theory since I haven't even opened up any xml or python files to research it) is that the new terrain-types/improvements are confusing the function that changes normal terrain into infernal terrain. I took note on my third try that none of my land had any of the new terrains on it at the time of the error, so it doesn't appear to be related to the specific swapping on a certain tile.

One more piece of evidence that suggests a terrain conflict is that in a fourth game I attempted to add some infernal terrain before the first research dialogue appeared and I discovered that suddenly none of the terrains where taking effect visually. Upon exiting worldbuilder I discovered that the tooltips were still showing that I'd changed, for example, a glassland into a wetland and a nearby plains into a broken-land, but visually they were unchanged. Upon ending ym turn, the same error occured, and continued to occur upon my attempt to reload the saved game either directly, or from within the game.

In relation to the other reported CTDs, maybe the AI is attempting something around these lines in relation to changing terrain from one type to another, and it's causing similar effects.

In closing, I'll repeat this is only a theory and no research other than my testing sessions have occured. Just something to think about.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Hell terrain was spreading nicely in my last (Archos) game, though not with me as Hybo. Pretty sure some was in my territory at some point after capturing a city though.

 

[Demus]

was there a lizard civ in your game? I can imagine wetlands - deep jungles - swamps being the troublemakers, since they're not in the terrain -> hell code by default.

 

[Gaal]

At first I was gonna say "well darn" due to the report of having no trouble with it... but... since Hyborem wasn't the player's civilization I suppose there's still hope yet. I was always playing as Hyborem in my tests.

As to knowing for sure if there were any specific lizard races on the map at the time, I can't say. However I do find it very likely that there was considering I put as many AI slots into the game I was preparing to play as I could without causing my system to crash, which tends to be around 11-13 of them, 12-14 total players. That doesn't leave much room for AI players to pick unique civs from.

I think it's quite possible that regardless of the lacation on the map, the terrain checks for hellish terrain transformation would probably hiccup a bit when it encountered something it didn't know what to do with, even if the location of that terrain wouldn't be affected. Also, considering how...what's the word... anal? anyway, civ4 doesn't handle errors very peacefully. One little tag somewhere followed by a blank space that it doesn't expect, and it's the end of life as we know it.

I only just now got done merging my personal scaling preferences with the newest version of FFH and Fall Further (which also includes some personal audio tunings) so I haven't even begun looking around for any evidence to support my theory.

 

[Slvynn]

Here we go, fast , unfinished sketch, concept art for Kadh + concept arts for Follower (mage UU) and Gremlin.
Sorry i have some problem with hosting, i will try to solve it , atm it will give error when you will try to see real size.




Added: Advisor (UU Archmage) concept sketch.



warning there is some problem with Follower pic, so no real size prewiev aviable.


according units - they can use some of sidar set for sure recolored retextured.
workers - pale skin royal robe sidar workers...
archers - recolored arab archers from this place : http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=237192
warriors - ottoman warriors from same place , bit recolored
recolor scheme - pale skin , royal (civ color) + black + white wear.
they should not have too much normal units since they getting differenbt units through their plannar gates.

Plannar Gate units:
Gremlin - need to be done , pls someone help
Djinn - exsist
Anomaly - Some glow, recolored mistform or fire ball / fire elemental into blue fire like it for Djinn.
Planewalker - Semi-visible Lawbringer, recolored
Psion - Very powerfull unit, national , limit = 1 , chance to spawn = 0% after 1 spawned. - mind 3 + sorcery + chan 3 = dominate (if gone Mammon path) no hero that way, but once killed , Psion re-appear again (respawn) soon enough.
while for Oghma pass key building allow to build hero.

Key shrine - At late game (Strenght of Will??) Kadh able to chose between Mammon or Oghma path. Unlocked at same tech, and when 1 shrine done - other one is locked and unaviable for whole game. 2 wonders on 1 slot.

Mammon shrine - -2 health, +1 happy with consumption, +20% income in city , +20% production in city , Merchant S free, Sage +2 GP, chance to spawn Psion with plannar gate in city, + 1 happy in city per mind node owned.

Oghma shrine - +2 happy with scholarship, +50% resereach in city, +4 Culture, Sage + 2 GP, build hero unit by completion - base 4 metamagic affinity 2, lvl 3 caster metamagic + enchantment, + 1 happy per metamagic node owned. + 1 metamagic mana
Balance is ok since they are agnostic and have not heroes early at game.

Main hero released on choosing Oghma path - Kadh himself, that go seek himself through Erebus the Knowledge, leaving his mid-plannar heaven, become vulnerable like other men, persuing unselfish, true Oghma champion, needs, should have some crazy spells. Oghma releases him from his plannar ties and send him to experience life as men again , learn and seek the Truth, while being vulnerable like normal Man, Art sketch for unit aviable in this post.
Leader traits losed if killed.

 

[Vehem]

Hmm - Wetlands is treated exactly as Grassland for purposes of Hell Terrain and will convert back to Grassland once sanctified (Hell dries it out - yes, I know I'm cheating). The Deep Jungle should just be removed as any other feature and the swamps will be removed if they are not on Wetland at the start of any turn.

I haven't seen it causing any confusion at the code level either - in fact the Cualli in one of my games recently were hit horribly by the spread of hell terrain. I will try a few games with Hyborem placed early though to see if I can force it to misbehave somehow...

 

[Gaal]

It's quite possible it was just a fluke, or my system was running out of memory at the time anyway. If it continues to really mess me up, I'm quite happy to return to the standard mod whenever I want to play Hyborem. Just gotta have that evilness every once in a while when I feel like killing something.

 

[Vehem]

It's quite possible it was just a fluke, or my system was running out of memory at the time anyway. If it continues to really mess me up, I'm quite happy to return to the standard mod whenever I want to play Hyborem. Just gotta have that evilness every once in a while when I feel like killing something.

If it does happen again - let me know (and possible post a save game). I've not managed to reproduce it with the first couple of attempts.

 

[Gaal]

Okay, here's a saved game I do have. However, the saved game is at turn 1. For testing purposes, I set the infernal civilization to playable. This means there are a few steps that need to be taken in the game before you reach my problem point.

Also, it should be noted that the folder name I used when setting things up is "Fall Further 021" which means there's at least one .thm file and an .xml file which references a specific path for the default .thm file it uses when loading the game. This could cause problems for anyone trying to load this game, unless they either modify their mod to match. However, now that I think about it, you could probably modify the saved game with a text editor to reference the proper mod path you're using. I believe the setting is somewhere on the first line in the saved game.

Anyway, when that's all sorted... Load the game, build your first city, start building something, end turn. Then I believe it asks you to start researching something. I chose ancient chants personally. Upon the next turn, when it would normally start modifying the terrain and whatnot I get a memory read error with a single OK button, which results in game shutdown.

Note: Even with the infernal civilization playable from the start, the same effect comes about if I turn infernal using the worldbuilder to modify another civ's techs, or if I do it the long way without editing anything. This way just speeds things up, and keeps me from having to play a lengthy game only to find out I can't do what I want to do with it.

 

[Dogfax]

sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what does the "guild of the Wyvern" do when set up? I am just about to build the last two wyvern guardians and would like to know what to do next. Its the Mazatl's world spell...

 

[Vehem]

Anyway, when that's all sorted... Load the game, build your first city, start building something, end turn. Then I believe it asks you to start researching something. I chose ancient chants personally. Upon the next turn, when it would normally start modifying the terrain and whatnot I get a memory read error with a single OK button, which results in game shutdown.

Thanks for the walkthrough - that generally helps.

Unfortunately it didn't this time - I "played" 100 turns as Hyborem with no sign of a problem using the same method, but not the save game - that one specifically refused to load for some reason - it bombed out before it finished loading the map.

I've run the crashdump through WinDbg and I can't see anything useful on the stack trace and the error codes are non-descript too (one of them even claims it to be a hardware fault).

==

On a side note - a quick way to deal with the .THM issue you mentioned (if you load a lot of games from other people) is to have a second copy of the Mod directory that you use for renames. The .THM then points to the original folder for the sake of the theme/resource entries, whilst the game uses the Assets in whichever folder you load up. You can just rename the second Mod-folder to match the save game, which saves editing anything else.

sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what does the "guild of the Wyvern" do when set up? I am just about to build the last two wyvern guardians and would like to know what to do next. Its the Mazatl's world spell...

It creates the "Order of the Wyvern" wonder in the capital. This has a few effects, most notably that it auto-constructs a Wyvern Monastery in every current and future city (each adding +5% to Golden Age length), adds a further 10% itself and also reduces war weariness. 8 Cities + Order of the Wyvern will yield 18 turn golden ages every time you start one. Every new city improves this further.