Fall Further - The Original Thread

[xienwolf]

Not sure which promotions you'd like Workboats to get really. They're a one shot unit that does their job once and instantly - then disappears. They generally shouldn't be around long enough to build up promotions. If you're using them as naval scouts, then they really should be staying slow anyway.

Don't think I saw the version of Xienwolf's mod where settlers get Aptitude - what was the purpose of that?

EDIT: Just had a look to check for myself. If I read it right, it's just so they can get Sentry/Mobility/Hardy? I'd usually expect the city to be built before they could amass much experience though...



Anyone else got this problem? Shows up ok on mine. Can you check that the "scores" aren't hidden (one of the buttons in the lower right) as this also hides the Manalist.




Thanks - I've added it now. For reference it acts like a spell-staff. When drunk, it allows you to cast again. Might alter that to act like the Healing Potion (50% chance of reuse).

I had settlers start with Aptitude 1 & 2 if I recall correctly. Did both of them so that they would gain the XP faster. The idea was that they could gain a few points of movement before reaching their destination, or increase their sight range.

 

[Vehem]

The score list is showing but if I use the CvMainInterface.py from patch B or higher I lose the mana display.

K - check in Python\EntryPoints and Python\Screens - see if there are two versions of that file. Shouldn't be that, but it's the only thing that jumps out at me that could cause that problem at the moment.

 

[Kasdar]

I don't know what the problem was but I reinstalled the mod and now it works.

 

[CMHistory]

Just a thought-

Giving Settlers Aptitude and their own advancement tree might be neat....rather than settling them immediately, maybe one could level them up to receive some Settler-Specific promotions?

Settler L-1: Free Granary on city creation?
Settler L-2: Free Walls?

Etc....

Is that doable/even preferable?

Talk amongs yourselves...

 

[Ekolite]

Or maybe as the settler level increases the higher the population the new city starts with, to represent the settler party gradually growing over time.

So for e.g.

Level 2 - 2 pop
Level 3 - 3 pop

 

[xienwolf]

Both are possible, but only with more additions to the Promotion Info file. And in each case it is adding items which I already have planned.

 

[Slvynn]

Vehem. Ever though about manual, somewhat in style of current ffh one?
(mostly new units and civs).

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

Or maybe as the settler level increases the higher the population the new city starts with, to represent the settler party gradually growing over time.

So for e.g.

Level 2 - 2 pop
Level 3 - 3 pop

So the settlers' experience reflects their ability to reproduce? o.o

 

[Slvynn]

i say better city tile
lvl 2 +1 gold
lvl 3 +2 gold

 

[Mukuu]

I definitely like Slvynn's idea. Giving the settler a larger pop bonus, or free hammers (buildings) is a little TO dramatic, and could lead to balance issues... Also, they dont really make sense, DharmaMcLaren brings up why that doesnt make any sense... More experience ='s 1000 more people... Thats some impressive reproduction there. The extra gold on the tile could point to the settlers ability to see better locations for the city, and better city planning to begin with, which means a more fundamentally economic city.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I disagree. The extra levels don't indicate more fertile settlers, it signifies a larger group.

Giving extra gold on the plot does not sound like a good idea to me at all. That would be a permanent bonus that you could get no other way, while extra population or a few buildings would be something that would have a diminishing effect. It would just have to be adjusted so that having a settler wait around for free xp wouldn't result a more advanced city than if it had settled earlier and had more time to develop. One population per level is too much, but 1 pop per 3 levels probably wouldn't be.

 

[Ekolite]

He's right, I said in the post that the expirience represented more people joining the settling party - not reproduction. People gather from nearnby towns and villages to join the settlers before they set of into the wildermess.

 

[Mukuu]

Eh, sorry bout that then. I see the error of my ways...

In all seriousness though, that makes more sense now. I still think the extra hammers is to strong, but the gold also would allow for the permanent bonus that would be VERY valuable in the early stages of a game. A little to valuable...

Meh, by the sounds of it, Xienwolf has already got something cooking up anyways... we are probably just beating a dead horse with this one. =]

 

[Slvynn]

Eh, sorry bout that then. I see the error of my ways...

In all seriousness though, that makes more sense now. I still think the extra hammers is to strong, but the gold also would allow for the permanent bonus that would be VERY valuable in the early stages of a game. A little to valuable...

Meh, by the sounds of it, Xienwolf has already got something cooking up anyways... we are probably just beating a dead horse with this one. =]

yeah, and i think that add pop/hammers is too over.... , how experienced settler can build granary at 1st day of his settling, its building, it should be built.
small commerce bonus is good tho and will also help little at early stages of game, while make less differene in end of it.

 

[Jhoniten]

not meaning to distract ya'll at all. was just thinking about....(i know, i know, my wife recommends I stop doing that) equipment and the drops from lairs. In the game we already tend to get several different weapons on one hero. We have added more equipment and great job of not making them more weapons. But is it possible to code in something, be it python or xml to add equipment flags to units? Pick up something and it sets the flag not allowing you to pick up anything else that has the same flag? Of course, dropping item removes the flag, so you could pick up the new item. If we could get such a mechanic going the multitude of items could grow a lot.

Then there is the problem of what to do when you don't want to just leave an item on the ground. Backpack. Maybe only available to those with adventurer promotion but allows you to carry items without using them.

hmm code inventory slots, code a backpack, code the game to know what is where. Someone should code me to keep quiet and just say thanks for the great mod.

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

He's right, I said in the post that the expirience represented more people joining the settling party - not reproduction. People gather from nearnby towns and villages to join the settlers before they set of into the wildermess.

Towns and villages, however, are represented by towns and villages on the map (and tribal villages). That population has to come from somewhere... if you promote a settler in the middle of the wilderness and a thousand people join it, it's not really "wilderness", is it? Forgive me if I'm being nitpicky, but I don't see how that's realistic when there are already core game mechanics in place to represent population in a tile.

I like the idea of letting the Skilled promotion give settlers the ability to build cities with pallisades, pagan temples, maybe even obelisks and elder councils. It would also make sense in the late game, when you can often expect units to begin with a little experience: they wouldn't go off and leave a shining metropolis to found a primitive village, they'd take supplies to get up and running straight away.

not meaning to distract ya'll at all. was just thinking about....(i know, i know, my wife recommends I stop doing that) equipment and the drops from lairs. In the game we already tend to get several different weapons on one hero. We have added more equipment and great job of not making them more weapons. But is it possible to code in something, be it python or xml to add equipment flags to units? Pick up something and it sets the flag not allowing you to pick up anything else that has the same flag? Of course, dropping item removes the flag, so you could pick up the new item. If we could get such a mechanic going the multitude of items could grow a lot.

Then there is the problem of what to do when you don't want to just leave an item on the ground. Backpack. Maybe only available to those with adventurer promotion but allows you to carry items without using them.

hmm code inventory slots, code a backpack, code the game to know what is where. Someone should code me to keep quiet and just say thanks for the great mod.

The easiest way (I think) to implement an "inventory" would be to let Adventurer units have two spells requiring an item: the usual "drop", and an additional "stop using". Casting "stop using" would remove the weapon promotion, add a "Not Using X" promotion, and allow the Adventurer to cast "use item" (which would remove "Not Using X" and add the weapon promotion again) if he was able to use it again.
That way the buttons to use an item would still be on the unit, as though they were in his "backpack", but you wouldn't need to code any new interface features or anything.

 

[DharmaMcLaren]

(Double post)

 

[Nicopol]

what a great modmod, i love it!
thank you very much!

 

[Slvynn]

i much more agree with Dharma than with Kol.7
i still thinking that to give to starting tile some bonus (even hammers, instead of commerce)
will me most proper thing.
Settlement cant start with pre-built buildings, they still must to be built. Yes some wonders place building in city but its just wonder effect.
Giving + production on starting tile will be very realistic thing to immplement. Due to proper and better city location, effic, etc.

 

[GhostQ]

I think experience for Settlers will end up with stuff with broken, or almost broken. City tile producing extra yield, or Settler producing cities with pop>1, even cities which start with buildings. The last one might be the most balanced one, but the buildings need to be really crappy, like Palisade as Dharma suggested. Any of the other buildings might end up broken. By the way, I'm of course talking about early or even very early game, where one extra food or an Obelisk do matter. Maybe do it so that Settlers can't gain any XP for the first 100 turns in the game, or something like that.