Fans who pick on deviations from the original source

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by aelf, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    It's a new era of adaptations. There are so many these days. And with each new adaptation, millions of voices cry out, and they won't be silenced.

    Look, I get it, you love the original. But guess what? It's still there. It's not somehow cheapened or ruined by the adaptation.

    And I simply don't understand the prevalent griping about the fact that something which has been adapted to a new medium has been changed slightly. Well, what did you expect? The adaptation needs to draw an audience made up of people who are not just fans of the original. And if something has been depicted in a certain way in text, for example, it doesn't mean it makes sense to do the exact same thing for a different format. If you have specific criticism about a change, I'm all ears, but 95% of the time all I see are simply complaints that something has been changed.

    This is perfectly exemplified for me in the whining about a certain series where one of the main characters is married at the start of the show, unlike in the books. But then the wife promptly dies on screen in the first episode anyway. So it makes no real difference to the plot at large, and all it does is help establish the character quicker than a book series that is notorious for being long-winded (which fans have been known to complain about as well).

    Oh, and, of course, there are the loony ravings about simple race or gender swaps that make no difference to the story.

    I suppose the average consumer of entertainment is probably not very bright, and their views might amount to plain emotivism (i.e., "This thing is bad because I don't like it"). But is there anyone who would like to speak from that corner here? I really don't understand this silliness.
     
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  2. Aiken_Drumn

    Aiken_Drumn Prince

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    I could agree, if it isn't always in the same direction. To simplify and remove nuance.

    Show me an adaption that adds to the Canon in a beneficial way?
     
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  3. Aiken_Drumn

    Aiken_Drumn Prince

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    Also, if you are a True Fan*. You are desperate for more, legitimate material from that universe. Everything else is a perverse corruption.. Like that horrendous recent adaption of Terry Pratchett's The Watch

    I was so, so, so excited for an adaption of his work, and they did such a disservice to the material, and the project flopped, it has likely cost me seeing more works in the future. So that hurts, and is a direct negative impact.


    *See no true Scotsman
     
  4. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Define "adds".

    If you see it purely from the lens of the source material, then of course many things are not going to appear like they 'add' anything. If you consider, however, that the adaptation is in a different medium, then changes might very well be 'additive', in that without them, it might not work well in that medium.

    Insisting that additions must only enrich what's in the source material is the wrong way of appraising an adaptation, but I think I'm starting to see where all the complaints come from - the wrong PoV.
     
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  5. Aiken_Drumn

    Aiken_Drumn Prince

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    I won't define a simple word. We all know what it means.

    Deciding if something adds or not, is a different matter I agree.

    You have a different POV. There is no way of deciding a singular 'correct' view to have.
     
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  6. r16

    r16 not deity

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    or some political necessity creates issues . Like Disney's Star Wars triology thing . Not only UAE princes have to be satisfied who like actually funded lSIL for a while to make the Tunisian locale far too dangerous . But everything had to be shinier but somewhat emptier . Star Wars happens to the most suitable venue for this Disney formula of the Girl can . But try it with insulting the old fans through their claimed bigotry and place a black guy to be really the center of the drama and action and yet treat him only as a window dressing . At the times you don't use him as an instrument to insult women who somehow do not fit with the current notions of beauty . Add a moronic plot and you are set to go . A deviation or something must be different , this much ı understand and agree , but rewriting everything because you intend to milk people with supplementary stuff and the old stuff must be deemed entirely pointless ? It will irritate people enough to grab firebrands and pitchforks ; if the said people have "invested" in the old ...
     
  7. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Nah, just because we're discussing opinions, it doesn't mean some opinions aren't better than others.

    If you have a point, state it. Otherwise, you'll end up having the same kind of problem as many fans who complain about changes: "It's like this because I say so".
     
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  8. Samson

    Samson Deity

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    I will agree that the world has quite enough problems to get upset about without worrying too much about how some fiction is handled by the multinational corporations that feed the populus its bread and circuses.

    However there are some things that they do that I do not like:
    • When something has been done in a form that is considered great, why remake it? The one that kind of gets me is The Producers. I have not been able to bring myself to watch the new one, because how could they improve on Mel Brooks? Another example would be Total Recall. I have not read the Philip K Dick original, so maybe the new one is closer to that, but seriously, how did they ever expect to compete with Arnie?
    • Why make little changes that add nothing to the new version but change fundamental points about the original? For example, while I quite like the Peter Jackson LotR, and I will not complain about cutting out Tom Bombadil and the cleansing of the shire but including superfluous bits it does annoy me how they handled the gift of man. Just for the sake of a small scene between Gandalf and Pippin they changed it from the one advantage we have over the elves and wizards and allowed us to control our own lives to some primary school impression of heaven.
    • The general tendency these days to remake everything and hardly have any original stories in blockbusters. There is more money spent on making films that ever before, is the whole industry so degraded that they do not have enough new stories that they have to spend most of that retelling old ones?
     
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  9. Aiken_Drumn

    Aiken_Drumn Prince

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    That's how opinions work. It doesn't matter if you disagree.
     
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  10. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    For some of us the lack of originality is starting to get old. What is there to get excited about when there is almost zero novelty in the market?

    For those who get angry about the "woke" recasting: there is a cottage industry of agitprop related to this very subject. Absent this factor I doubt you'd hear much about it at all.

    Edit - I'd also like to add that many Americans sense of self is tied up into the pop culture they consume so it gets personal for them even when it isn't. I don't think this is at all healthy, but most folks have literally nothing else to do or get involved with so here we are.
     
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  11. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Does it matter why?

    Do note that I'm talking about adaptations, not remakes, which may face different issues.

    If you have specific problems about changes, fair enough. Presumably, you don't dislike the change simply because it is a change.

    Yes. I do enjoy quite a few adaptations, though.
     
  12. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    The inherent purpose of entertainment products is to entertain people.

    If people don't like the product, it is perfectly rational for them to regard it as a bad thing.

    There is nothing emotive about that conclusion.
     
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  13. Synsensa

    Synsensa Especially the lies. Retired Moderator

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    I find most adaptations to be better than their original source. Notable exceptions include The Martian and Ready Player One. The Martian movie was good, but the book was still better. The movie for RPO was an embarrassment.

    The movie adaptation for Harry Potter was a significant improvement over the book series. Cue Valka D'Ur and Lexicus armed with pitchforks.

    I have no issue with deviations from the original. I am more concerned with loyalty to the atmosphere and whether or not it's an enjoyable experience in and of itself. A lot of books have issues with dilly-dallying and movies inherently cut out a lot of that, so for me, there's improvement just by virtue of having less.

    I have a bias toward visual media, however. I have a minor case of aphantasia and do not/cannot imagine what I read. In-depth descriptions are effectively noise to me. I will naturally lean toward visual media just because it's something I can actually see, unlike the things I read.

    The books from the Mass Effect series are much worse than the games. The Witcher games (adaptation 1) are better than the books (original), which are better than the show (adaptation 2). (Season 2 might change that; we'll see.)
     
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  14. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    Audiences change over time and remakes are usually "updated" to fit some new audience profile. In addition, with movies tech changes can make a huge difference. For many old tech doesn't work any more. How many of you don't like B&W films? Remakes are designed to make money and not necessarily to improve upon the past. The new Dune may attract crabby old people who read the books decades ago, but it was filmed with millennials in mind. Old folks can be pretty intransient in their likes and dislikes after decades of always being right... :p
     
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  15. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I think it should really depend on what it is. If the original is say a somewhat edgy kid’s cartoon and the entire audience has grown up, make the movie follow up for grownups. Speed Racer was good but it could have been way gnarlier.

    If it’s Star Wars, people want world building content and it’s going to upset people no matter what.

    if it’s a movie adaption to a film, just focus on a good cinematic element…you shouldn’t cram the whole book’s plot arc. All we wanted from Ender’s Game was Battle School.
     
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  16. Valka D'Ur

    Valka D'Ur Hosting Iron Pen in A&E Retired Moderator

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    I had a long post typed out, but y'know what? I've decided that due to the incivility of the OP and the evidence further on that civility is not deemed important in this thread, I will decline to participate.

    Anyone wanting to talk Dune with me can either send a PM or wait for me to catch up in the Dune thread (sorry, @warpus; I know you asked questions and I did start on a reply, but this is NaNoWriMo month and that has to come first; I will catch up and answer your questions later).

    @Synsensa:

    angry-mob.gif

    There's a perfectly good Harry Potter thread in A&E. If you want to discuss books vs. movies, I'm fine with doing it there (and my views will probably surprise you).


    I'm out of here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  17. haroon

    haroon Deity

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    An adaptation is not supposed to be a re-interpretation, but it's a visualization of the text. It's super understandable if appreciators got pissed if the adaptation sought not to visualize but to alter the original works because the change distorted their perspective of the work and it caused discomfort naturally.

    They should leave and protect what is good from the original, while at the same time use any positive change that can be brought from the visualization, or try to bring more focus and expand some details to whatever parts the fans wanted to hear more. A good adapter should know both the works and the appreciator/fans of its work. Without that fans will feel that the adapter distorted the work with their adaptation due to their lack of knowledge or respect of the original work, naturally.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
  18. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Then it seems odd to be determined not to be entertained by something. Feeling hate and anger seems to me like the opposite of being entertained.

    If it doesn't strike your fancy, don't consume it. I mean, it's an adaptation, not even a canon sequel to the original.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

    I think it's more complicated than that.

    Visualisation of a text is definitely not a simple matter. What works in one medium may not work in the other, so there should be no inherent expectation that nothing is changed. The argument should be about whether a particular change works or not, and even then there may be considerations other than plot or characterisation (e.g. times have changed, run times, realistic budgets, casting issues, etc).
     
  19. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Why would they watch it, if they were determined not to be entertained by it?

    Perhaps they went with an open mind.

    I suspect that it is not until they had watched the adaption, they decided they didn't like it.

    And disappointment is not the same as hate and anger.
     
  20. tjs282

    tjs282 Stone \ Cold / Fish

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    The thing about adaptations though, is that you won't know that the source (which you liked) has been butchered until after you've consumed the product.

    So the only 'choice' available at that point is to be either resigned or annoyed at having been ripped off/disappointed.

    And, I suppose, to decide not to watch any sequels (not that I ever seem to learn this lesson)...
     

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