[RD] Feminism

[Narz]

I think the six years is even more appropriate when you consider human biology. Scientists believe the human brain finishes developing somewhere around 25. Turner was 19 when he committed the rape. Of course that in no way exuses or jusities what he did, but if at 19, he took his punishment like a man and spent the next 6 years thinking long and hard about what he did, there would have been more hope for him in the long run.

The human brain is always changing, a 40 year old is more different from a 25 year old than a 25 year old is from a 19 year old. I think rapists should get minimum 25 years and also lose a ball (so if you rape twice you can't rape thrice).

 

[Synobun]

The human brain is always changing, a 40 year old is more different from a 25 year old than a 25 year old is from a 19 year old. I think rapists should get minimum 25 years and also lose a ball (so if you rape twice you can't rape thrice).

Suitably dramatic, to be sure, but I feel it needs to be pointed out that rape does not require a working male genital.

 

[Narz]

Suitably dramatic, to be sure, but I feel it needs to be pointed out that rape does not require a working male genital.

Yeah at one of the f-ed up boarding schools I went to they raped a kid with a broomstick. It's good punishment tho (getting neutered, not raped with a broomstick).

 

[caketastydelish]

The human brain is always changing, a 40 year old is more different from a 25 year old than a 25 year old is from a 19 year old. I think rapists should get minimum 25 years and also lose a ball (so if you rape twice you can't rape thrice).

Meh. 25 years for a first-time offense seems a little harsh. The girl herself didn't want him to just rot away in prison. You're not even satisfying her with this kind of '25 years and a ball chopped off' vigilante justice.

The reality is 97% of rapes will face no jail time whatsoever. That right there is the real outrage. That Turner actually faced far MORE punishment than what the typical rapist will get. Given this context, going after Turner more is beating a dead horse.

I won't even pretend he doesn't basically deserve his attention. Like I said, it's not that the rape occurred, the outrage is his stupidly short prison sentence and his lack of remorse. I also think the judge should face just as much outrage (if not more) than Turner. It was the judge who assigned the stupidly short sentence. A judge, of all people, should know better.
Turner's life is ruined. I won't even say I feel sorry for him at this point, or that I think he doesn't deserve to be ruined. But it IS ruined. He couldn't even get a job at McDonald's now. He went from .potential Olympic swimmer athlete at a top ranked university to rock bottom. Like I said, I even agree that he deserves it. But when you consider that 97% of rapes will face no punishment whatsoever, I don't want to hear about his 'rich white male privilege'. When you look at the statistics, he actually did suffer far more than the average rapist. This is not even including the fact that since it's such a high-profile case, almost everyone will recognize him by his face. Or as soon as they find out 'oh it was that guy' nobody will give him a chance. The reality is, the vast majority of rapists are not only 'given that chance' but are repeat offenders that continue to get away with it. With all of this being said, I would honestly be less afraid of Brock Turner at this point, than of the average, typical rapist.

edit: I also am not sure about him being on the sex offender list. Being on some kind of 'list' is good but the problem with the 'sex offender list' is it's a one size fits all list for all the sex offenders of all shapes and sizes.

Turner was 19 and targeted a woman a few years older than he was. In other words, probably not a pedophile. This 'sex offender list' is going to ban him from schools and playgrounds, which it appears he was never interested in in the first place. I suppose the most appropriate place to ban him from is from parties, from any alcohol consumption (especially since he's using that as his pathetic defense anyway), from rave parties, bars, etc. Why? Because these are the type of places he's committed his crimes before. Banning him from children is well intentioned, but misses the point. If an NFL player got caught doping, would you ban them from baseball? I don't have much good to say about Turner, but he is, most likely, not a pedophile. Like I said, he probably needs to be on some 'sex offender list' of some sort, but having a 100% generic sex offender list for all the different sex offenders, regardless of any context whatsoever, seems silly IMO.

 

[Synobun]

It's been some time since I looked into the Turner situation, but I was under the impression that it grew into such a media storm because it was going the route of most rapes in school settings: swept under the rug and dismissed. It was the media outrage that resulted in it being taken seriously and cracked down upon.

I don't agree with people having their lives permanently ruined, regardless of the crime. I'm big on rehabilitation and redemption. That said, I also don't agree with allowing people to commit a rape without consequence which is a common result in schools, be it underage or legal. It's a difficult thing to convict even if taken seriously, and the importance of a woman's agency being respected is also something that is often quite lacking.

 

[caketastydelish]

It's been some time since I looked into the Turner situation, but I was under the impression that it grew into such a media storm because it was going the route of most rapes in school settings: swept under the rug and dismissed. It was the media outrage that resulted in it being taken seriously and cracked down upon.

That could be a part of it, but the other part of it is there was an abundance of actual evidence. The vast, vast majority of rapes are not going have multiple eyewitnesses, and those same eye witnesses making sure he not only escapes but being able to contain his bodily fluids as more evidence, etc. He didn't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting out of this one, and he should have just settled. Like I said, he and his family continued to dig a bigger and bigger hole for themselves when they didn't have to.

I don't agree with people having their lives permanently ruined, regardless of the crime. I'm big on rehabilitation and redemption. That said, I also don't agree with allowing people to commit a rape without consequence which is a common result in schools, be it underage or legal. It's a difficult thing to convict even if taken seriously, and the importance of a woman's agency being respected is also something that is often quite lacking.

I'm not sure what we can do to Brock Turner at this point that hasn't already been done, besides literally kill him. He can't even leave his house without receiving death threats. This is not someone in a position to take advantage of another woman again, even if he wants to.

 

[civver_764]

This is utter nonsense of course. In fact it is more likely to be the reverse: an accusation of rape is likely to destroy the accuser's life, particularly if the rapist is rich or powerful.

How does it destroy the accuser's life? How would you feel if you were accused of rape?

I just want to point out that Brock Turner pleaded not guilty, and that this was written by his dad. It's not strange for someone's dad to stick up for them, especially if they believe they are innocent.

 

[caketastydelish]

False rape accusations make up well under 10% of accusations, therefore they aren't even worth talking about. It shouldn't even be in the discussion.

I mean yes, false rape accusers are turds, but there aren't that many of them.

 

[civver_764]

False rape accusations make up well under 10% of accusations, therefore they aren't even worth talking about.

LGBT people make up well under 10% of the population, therefore they aren't worth talking about.

 

[caketastydelish]

LGBT people make up well under 10% of the population, therefore they aren't worth talking about.

That's a dumb comparison. You're only looking at the percentage, not raw numbers.

There are far, far more LBGT people than false rape accusers. If there were as many false rape accusers as LBGT people, the courts would be overfilled with BS.

 

[Honor]

Ah, but you haven't taken into account Dasein and the paradox of living in relationship with other humans while being ultimately alone with the self. The patriarchy is part of the collective world of Them, which the historical Self had to engage in, being not simply a subject, and the 'Being-in-the-World' is thus...

Ahh, I see. A display of Intellectual humility.

On the other hand, you will never know what I know, which is simple to grasp, really. You will never believe it or understand it, of course, because you don't even realize just how much you don't know.

This is what I know: The things you are attributing to sexism - i.e. men being victimized by being drafted and women being victimized by being thought of as fragile are only perceived as thus in your social construct. You simply cannot see outside this lens. You see abusers and victims everywhere, because that is what you are. This (your loveless perception of the world around you) is also the reason why your people generally feel it is basically a wasteland outside the US, which makes it easier to bomb the crap out of people. For the rest of us, these issues have nothing to do with sexism - they feel like a natural consequence of our love for one another.

Of course, talking about love is probably Chinese to you. I know how people tend to instantly distrust people who talk about love over there, which is just another indicator of how sick your society has become. You just don't share the sentiment or the perspective because you cannot believe such a reality is possible. Even if you do believe it is possible, you will still feel you can objectively judge what is going on. This is your folly, and will probably be your downfall, along with ours.

 

[caketastydelish]

I just want to point out that Brock Turner pleaded not guilty

But see, that's the problem. He shouldn't have even tried to plead not guilty.

,

and that this was written by his dad. It's not strange for someone's dad to stick up for them, especially if they believe they are innocent.

Everybody knew he's guilty. Saying 'I don't want him to rot in prison for the rest of his life' is one thing (even the victim herself was basically saying that) but he was trivializing the actions of his son as much as possible.

 

[civver_764]

But see, that's the problem. He shouldn't have even tried to plead not guilty.

What if he was not guilty?

Everybody knew he's guilty. Saying 'I don't want him to rot in prison for the rest of his life' is one thing (even the victim herself was basically saying that) but he was trivializing the actions of his son as much as possible.

But if he didn't think his son was guilty, then he wasn't really trivializing anything.

 

[aelf]

Whether that sexism ultimately stemmed from attitudes where women were seen as too weak to fight or not, whether patriarchy is responsible for these attitudes, is completely irrelevant to the fact that the end result is that you have sexism against both, men and women.

The types of sexism are not entirely the same, because yeah, I agree with you, there is an element of seeing women as incapable that is not present on the side of men, but that is countered by the fact that men are expected to play the protector, even at their own demise.

I mean even here:

You're basically saying: "Feminism wants to free men from sexist expectations." (a notion that I only partly agree with), but still have to phrase it in a way that completely negates the idea that men are - not can be, but are - victims of sexism under current circumstances although that is exactly what you are saying.

The way you simply can't admit to yourself that while women are victims of sexism, 'men are victims of sexism, too', and must instead reframe it to 'men are victims of the patriarchy backfiring', shows exactly why feminist theory is dangerous.

Ah, so I guess it's already time for your typical tactic of contorting and twisting arguments just to try and show that you're right?

I have stated multiple times that men are also victims of sexism towards women. I have moreover stated that men can be victims of sexism towards men. However, I also argued that when men are victims of sexism towards women, it does not suddenly make the sexism not sexism towards women. Neither you nor the OP has addressed this issue of intentionality of sexism, instead merely playing the victim card (ironically) and repeatedly asserting that I don't acknowledge that men are victims too, which is demonstrably false.

You seem to be at wits' end.

Ahh, I see. A display of Intellectual humility.

On the other hand, you will never know what I know, which is simple to grasp, really. You will never believe it or understand it, of course, because you don't even realize just how much you don't know.

Of course I will never know what you know. From the perspective of phenomenology, the achievement of truth is subjective. The lived body is your own body as experienced by yourself, as yourself.

This is what I know: The things you are attributing to sexism - i.e. men being victimized by being drafted and women being victimized by being thought of as fragile are only perceived as thus in your social construct. You simply cannot see outside this lens. You see abusers and victims everywhere, because that is what you are. This (your loveless perception of the world around you) is also the reason why your people generally feel it is basically a wasteland outside the US, which makes it easier to bomb the crap out of people. For the rest of us, these issues have nothing to do with sexism - they feel like a natural consequence of our love for one another.

Of course, talking about love is probably Chinese to you. I know how people tend to instantly distrust people who talk about love over there, which is just another indicator of how sick your society has become. You just don't share the sentiment or the perspective because you cannot believe such a reality is possible. Even if you do believe it is possible, you will still feel you can objectively judge what is going on. This is your folly, and will probably be your downfall, along with ours.

Ah, but do you know what I know? You do not even know where my physical body is, merely conjecturing that I am an American who loves to "bomb the crap out of people". You don't what you don't know, my friend - the same applies to you, doubly so. This is your folly, and will probably be your downfall in this forum.

 

[caketastydelish]

What if he was not guilty?

He was 100% guilty. I have gone after the false rape accusers, including some on this very forum (see the Duke Lacross thing) but this was a 100% real deal legit thing. He raped her. Period.

But if he didn't think his son was guilty, then he wasn't really trivializing anything.

There was way too much evidence to not know what he did.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

But if he didn't think his son was guilty, then he wasn't really trivializing anything.

Hypothetically, if he didn't think he was guilty what "twenty minutes of action" do you think he was referring to?

 

[civver_764]

Hypothetically, if he didn't think he was guilty what "twenty minutes of action" do you think he was referring to?

According to Brock Turner's story they were drunk and having sex outside.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

According to Brock Turner's story they were drunk and having sex outside.

Yeah, sex with unconscious people isn't consensual. Playing the privilege card to cover for his athlete son is what probably lead to his son being the way he is. IMO they should both have gone to prison. There are no juvenile delinquents, just juvenile criminals with delinquent parents.

 

[caketastydelish]

Does 19 count as juvenile?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Does 19 count as juvenile?

Legally, no. However if you look at the enabling behavior of the parents and consider it in the context of the typical college athlete the word itself certainly applies. "My son the athlete can do no wrong" is not particularly useful in helping your kid grow up.