FfH2 0.20 Balance Feedback

[Sureshot]

I just summoned a skeleton with a wizard who had Combat I, II, III, IV, and V. The skeleton pops out with a total of +50% strength. Starting with 3 strength, that'd make him 4.5. It's still not even as strong as a hunter.

Also, overwhelming enemies by summoning a bunch of skeletons every turn doesn't seem to be very feasible - skeletons can't attack on the turn they're summoned. You'd be better off summoning chaos marauders instead (which is what I was doing in my last game).

you attack with them every turn, and summon them after they die (and disband any that dont die to make room for new ones if they're hurt)

it is very effective before they get tier 3 units

 

[vyapti]

They're also great against city defense. 2 adepts and, maybe a mercenary and you've got an instant army when and where you need it. You have fodder in case of an initial wave and you're stong attackers/defenders (fewer needed) can defend a greater number/distance of cities.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

I think the hell ressources just suck. Apart from the toads, all modified ressources are quite lame.

Pillar of Snakes looks nice but even with all the bonuses from ashen veil tech they produce really low yeild and can't be improved. True they give a little of everything, but not much when compared to what you get from good improved tiles without any special ressource, and they take the place of a special ressource!

Sheut stones also provide low bonuses when you compare them to other hammers-bonus ressources.

Water adepts should be able to turn burning sands to fields of perdition just like normal deserts. Maybe it's just a bug (i talked about it in the bug report too) but they can't currently.

Hell should be a pain, but not for ashen veil players! The veil is already the weakest religion, if you add the fact that founding the veil will give you a powerfull, unreliable neighbour and change your lands to hell terrain that can't be improved like normal terrain, and will make you loose valuable ressources without giving you something to compensate, it's really a bad idea to go for the veil curently.

 

[Arwon]

In the same way that the Malakim units all get the nomad promotion, I'm thinking it might be an idea to give all Lanun units the Amphibious (or perhaps a similar but unique promotion, "Pirate" or something) promotion, to make them that much more threatening from the seas.

 

[Bringa]

Bob: who in their right mind would summon the infernals and NOT take their role?

 

[Tzu Iop]

I think that the founder of the Ashen Veil should be allied with Hyborem, like Basium is with the constructor of the gate. Or Hyborems Warscript should changed in a way, that Hyborem won't declare war on Veil Civs.

For the Hell terrain I would suggest special improvements, which are only enabled with a certain civic, only having extra yields when this civic is choosen and otherwise just give 0/0/0. Something like a blood fountain, which provides extra food or enslaved souls, which provid extra production.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Bob: who in their right mind would summon the infernals and NOT take their role?

Someone playing the Seiams for instance. The Sheiams WANT the armag counter to be high (planar gate works best when arm is high), so if you want to play Sheaims, better use the religion that works best on high armageddon counter, and better use YOUR religion then someone elses'. Unfortunately, founding to the veil curently hiders you more than it helps, but for Sheiams, OO would be worse because of hell, Fellowship is bad for anyone but elves, and you might not want to become good !

I don't think hell tiles sould give 0/0/0 yeild, it would be WAY to harsh for non ashen veil evil civs and for neutrals. But i think a veil civ should have a production on hell tiles as good as on normal ones. Non AV civs should have a slightly decreased production.

 

[Uberness]

Couple things to improve balance early on after playing online abit with ffh2, first off is make it so scouts can't capture enemy cities but hunters and up can, a 2 movement 1 str scout can take out a capital before the guy can build anything.

And perhaps remove demonslaying 2 from monks but allow them to upgrade to it with experience? right now a monk can wipe the floor with Hyborem and his army no problem.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Couple things to improve balance early on after playing online abit with ffh2, first off is make it so scouts can't capture enemy cities but hunters and up can, a 2 movement 1 str scout can take out a capital before the guy can build anything.

Duh, against a 2str +25% city defense warrior???
With a LOT of luck maybe

 

[Civkid1991]

im not sure if this has been mentioned yet but i noticed that the ashen veil priests can't enter burning tiles unless its a city tile. It would make more since if they could since there is no other way for them to summon the lions since there are no deserts in hell.

 

[Master_Hugian]

with the Doviello unable to build forges they can no longer use the engineer specilist the comes from it, and since it is the the only early way i can see of getting them (unless you go for runes). Perhaps still allow them to build the forge but the just don't need it for making weapons, or have a doviello only building that emulates the forge but the production bonus is +20% military units.

Idea

Spoiler :

War Wagon (Doviello Only)
National Unit
Requires: Bronze Working
Unit
0 Strength, 2 Movement
Commando (if Mahala), Medic I, March
Can build War Camp (sacrifices unit)

War Camp (Doviello Only)
+20% military production, +2 experience to new melee units, one citizen can be turned into an engineeer.

 

[Gamestation]

War Wagon (Doviello Only)
National Unit
Requires: Bronze Working
Unit
0 Strength, 2 Movement
Commando (if Mahala), Medic I, March
Can build War Camp (sacrifices unit)

War Camp (Doviello Only)
+20% military production, +2 experience to new melee units, one citizen can be turned into an engineeer.

That's a very cool idea there, though why would it need march if it already has 0 strength? Otherwise it really gives the Doviello a leg up in flavor and power in my opinion.

 

[Schmoe]

I can't believe people want skeletons to be MORE powerful. You can have a single Adept pump out a throw-away skeleton every single turn! That's as good as a Fireball without the collateral damage. And all it costs is an Adept. Not only that, but Adepts typically have other useful things they can do when they aren't summong a horde of skeletons, so they aren't wasted during peacetime.

Summong disposable troops has the potential to be a VERY strong ability. I think the low-level summons should serve the role of weakening an enemy, but to really defeat an enemy you should still need real troops.

Just as a case in point, let's say I have a stack of 5 macemen attacking a city protected by a Heavy Crossbowman. If, due to promotions, the macemen have a strength of 8.4 (+20%) vs. the crossbowman's strength of about 20 (+55%), I'm pretty much hopelessly outmatched, and would expect to lose at least 4 out of 5, if not all, of my macemen.

But, if I bring my stack of 5 skeletons, which essentially cost me nothing to produce, and soften up the enemy first, I can reasonably expect to maybe do 2-3 points of damage to that crossbowman, bringing his strength down to the range of 17-18, which will likely save a maceman in the attack. And in a single turn, I can have those skeletons back.

Skeletons are meant to die by the droves and save your more powerful troops.

 

[Master_Hugian]

That's a very cool idea there, though why would it need march if it already has 0 strength? Otherwise it really gives the Doviello a leg up in flavor and power in my opinion.

rather I meant it would give the units in the stack march while its with them, I was not sure if march extended to the other units with medic I

 

[A+ombomb]

Bone catapults don't seem to be balanced at all. It's too early in the game for a 6 strength unit with incredible withdrawal chance and collateral to be around. What's worse is that I can't seem to find any units or upgrades that counter these siege units, since horse archers are anti archer now apparently? Something has to be changed big time here.

 

[Sureshot]

ya, theres no effective anti-siege units/promotions/buildings

tho generally siege engines are dismissable since mages achieve that end better, but skull catas and trebuchets are dangerous.

 

[A+ombomb]

Mages take quite a while to build up experience to be useful, whereas bone catapults can be slaved to the degree of hundreds within not so many turns. Nothing - no hero, no unit - can defend against these guys attacking that early on. That's a problem!

 

[Rhymes]

Bone catapults don't seem to be balanced at all. It's too early in the game for a 6 strength unit with incredible withdrawal chance and collateral to be around. What's worse is that I can't seem to find any units or upgrades that counter these siege units, since horse archers are anti archer now apparently? Something has to be changed big time here.

100% agreeing with that.

 

[onedreamer]

ya, theres no effective anti-siege units/promotions/buildings

tho generally siege engines are dismissable since mages achieve that end better, but skull catas and trebuchets are dangerous.

nah, the best siege units are Larry, Moe and Curly.

I'm finding skeletons to be rather weak by the time you're able to make them - Rangers completely mop the floor with them. And I've even built the Tower of Necromancy (which boosts their strength by 1).

Rangers are a T3 unit. How can you compare it to Skeletons which are a T2 unit ? Their counterpart would be Hunters in this case.

 

[Quetz]

In the same way that the Malakim units all get the nomad promotion, I'm thinking it might be an idea to give all Lanun units the Amphibious (or perhaps a similar but unique promotion, "Pirate" or something) promotion, to make them that much more threatening from the seas.

I was thinking the same thing the other day.