FfH2 0.20 Balance Feedback

[moverred]

The whole weapon promotion should be done away with IMO.

Copper gives you axemen
Iron gives you macemen.

It shouldn't mean just because you have Iron, that Warriors weilding wooden clubs should get stronger. Nothing is free in life.
make them pay for their upgrades.

If need be, make Mithril a pre requisite to show its special quality in the teir 4 melee units

I've seen this objection quite a bit, but IMHO the resource upgrades are logical. If you have Copper, why wouldn't you make Copper clubs? The same with the other metals as well. Training and weaponry is one bonus (ie;a warrior compared to an axeman), while what the weopons are made of is another. It is just one unique concept among many in this mod that should stay!
Great Work on an AWESOME MOD!

 

[sixs_monkey]

There -are- examples of bronze maces/warclubs in real-world museums.
There's a reason for at least one civ to not use Iron in that way, however, depending on how 'fae' the elves/dark elves are, and this lead me to wonder if it would be a worthwhile alteration to the weapon-tiers so that they aren't strictly heirarchical... *shrug* just a thought.

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

Posted this somewhere else, but I think it really belongs here:

It would be cool for the Mercurians to leave after the Infernals are destroyed. The civ which summoned Basium would get back all cities the mercurians have - but all angelic units would disappear. Makes sense flavourwise as i remember reading somewhere that Basium only cares about the Infernal and nothing else.

The problem would be when you change to the Mercurians - maybe just give them a victory condition with killing the Infernals, but that sounds pretty easy with the poor starts the Infernals get.

 

[Nimbus]

Any chance that the Ashen Veil temples can be changed to give out +1 prophet GPP and +1 Sage GPP instead of +2 prophet GPP as establishing the holy city can take quite awhile if you beeline for Ashen Veil from the start of the game. This is even more true for .021 when Ashen Veil moves back another tech.

 

[onedreamer]

uhm... AV temples don't give GPP...
they allow +1 sage specialist and +1 priest specialist if that's what you mean, and that would be already how you requested. At least last I checked.

 

[Nimbus]

uhm... AV temples don't give GPP...
they allow +1 sage specialist and +1 priest specialist if that's what you mean, and that would be already how you requested. At least last I checked.

just checked and they give 2 citizens to priest. they need a sage to build their holy city and with the long climb to their religon, it would help them greatly to make it +1 citizen for sage and +1 citizen for priest.

 

[Kael]

Good idea, I'll switch the temple of the veil to allowing 1 priest and 1 sage instead of 2 priests.

 

[onedreamer]

Ah wait I might have confused with Octopus temples ?

 

[A+ombomb]

I feel very strongly that some of the more magical traits should be balanced out to be more useful at the start of the game perhaps in exchange for less potency later. Magic resistant is my biggest beef, as it is virtually worthless for a long time. I would suggest changing the trait to merely "Resistant" or some other word with a similar meaning, then you can add in useful early game properties while still making sense. How about resistant trait provides +1 defense to it's melee class units? So resistant warriors would be 2/3, etc. If this seems too overpowering, perhaps resistant could have workers and settlers with some toughness, say 2.

Summoners could have a drop back to 2 turns for their summons, but have an option to summon a unit every 10 turns at each city (which lasts for 2 turns). The nature of the summons would change as teching increased, but the summon could not move outside of cultural boundaries. Initial summons would be just 1 power and act as a blocker, with a 2 power upgrade coming at ancient chants, and so on.

Arcane trait might give each city +2 beakers or some such interesting bonus to technology.

Again, the point here is to make each trait more useful for the onset of the game while still not overpowering as the game develops. Please do not respond to this in the form of "You take an early game drawback to have a late game advantage.", because this sort of post is completely unfruitful in my eyes. The net result of such "balance" is that the game is never balanced at all, but rather completely imbalanced with a pivot point.

 

[driekan]

I can see the problem, but I dont think those are the best solutions, A+ombomb...

Resistant giving an increase in the defense of every melee unit might be a bit too powerful, and the flavor behind it is really that every unit be resistant to supernatural things, not to everything. Maybe improving the resistance promotiong and allowing them earlier or easier is a good way to go, making an early warrior completely immune to the +1 death from a skeleton, as an example.

As for arcane... The problem with giving extra beakers is that not every tech is arcane. Being very arcane-minded shouldnt make you learn how to work bronze easier. Seeing as how Knowledge of the Ether comes relatively early (Specially if you rush it), it isnt useless very long at all.

 

[Rhymes]

I can see the problem, but I dont think those are the best solutions, A+ombomb...

Resistant giving an increase in the defense of every melee unit might be a bit too powerful, and the flavor behind it is really that every unit be resistant to supernatural things, not to everything. Maybe improving the resistance promotiong and allowing them earlier or easier is a good way to go, making an early warrior completely immune to the +1 death from a skeleton, as an example.

As for arcane... The problem with giving extra beakers is that not every tech is arcane. Being very arcane-minded shouldnt make you learn how to work bronze easier. Seeing as how Knowledge of the Ether comes relatively early (Specially if you rush it), it isnt useless very long at all.

Cost of Knowledge of the ether halved for Arcane civs!

 

[A+ombomb]

Well I wasn't suggesting they were the best ideas, I was just trying to get the ball rolling. I like the concept of making magic resistance immune to the bonuses or some sort of reduction to the +1 on skels or the +1 on pyre zombies; that could be a great addition - much better than +1 defense and more in line with the flavor.

The reason why I thought it would be good to adjust arcane/summoning traits isn't purely because those traits take a while to use, but also because overpowering those traits along the magic line virtually monopolizes that civ into playing a magic tech line. It seems to me that every tech line should provide at least something for each civ, so we aren't all just playing with cookie cutters. If summoner and arcane traits are nerfed late and buffed early, a player can follow a different path while still benefiting from their traits.

 

[A+ombomb]

By the way, is it a bug that skeletons from death adepts don't disappear? Shouldn't they function just like any other summon?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Skeletons and Treants don't disapear, but you cannot summon another if there are more of the summoned units than units cat cam summon them. I think there are a 1 or 2 more summons that work like this.

 

[AndrewDJ]

Fire-magic is still overpowered
I think magic is still unbalanced, and Fire magic is still overpowered. There is some really nice high level spells in other spheres as well : having 3 large cities with no unrest is VERY good, the new maelstrom spell is a nice alternative to meteor for direct damage, but some things still make fire overpowered to my eyes :

. . . .

Oh, additionally Ring of Warding could give Fire-Resistant promotion to units inside the city, or have a chance to destruct fireballs/meteors just like summoned creatures! Hmm, maybe they can, the AI rarely build them so i can't be sure.

I totally agree with this suggestion, or in the alternative, adding some sort of spell for fire/elemental resistance. Also, what about adding wonders similar to the Eternal Flame, but for other elements/mana types?

 

[vorshlumpf]

By the way, is it a bug that skeletons from death adepts don't disappear? Shouldn't they function just like any other summon?

Yeah, this has confused me a bit, too. I'm thinking that temporary summon spells should be called summon spells, and the permanent ones should be renamed. For example, 'Animate Dead' instead of 'Summon Skeleton'; 'Wild Familiar' instead of 'Summon Tiger'; 'Animate Tree' instead of 'Summon Treant'.

- Niilo

 

[vorshlumpf]

Make fireballs/meteors "blind"

Big agreement, here. Not only does it seem odd to be able to explore with fireballs but, as someone who prefers to watch all AI movement (friend or foe), I am frequently treated to watching fireballs and meteors 'patrolling' around AI cities.

I would go one further and suggest that such attack spells are limited to the sight of the caster, but that, I fear, would be a huge departure from the current mechanic. Essentially, fireballs and meteors would have to be targetable spells and no longer have a life of their own.

- Niilo

 

[Gyromancer]

a few more observations from my sheaim game

-the four horsemen of the apocalypse all died within a couple of turns of appearing. id say it might be related to how late they arrive, but as im only on turn 280 they probably could use beefing up a bit

...

The same happened in my Sheiam > Hyborem game. From what I saw it was because the AI attacks with them until its odds are bad. Then they get killed by counterattacks, since they get no defensive bonuses. Short of making them heal fully at the end of each turn, I don't see any way to stop this without making them virtually invincable

 

[Jean Elcard]

The same happened in my Sheiam > Hyborem game. From what I saw it was because the AI attacks with them until its odds are bad. Then they get killed by counterattacks, since they get no defensive bonuses. Short of making them heal fully at the end of each turn, I don't see any way to stop this without making them virtually invincable

Quite the opposite for me. Of the 12 civilizations in my huge marathon game 4 fell prey to the barbarian state. One of them, the Luchuirp, in particular to the 4 horsemen. But this may be because of the fast increasing armageddon counter on huge maps with 0.20h. So the horsemen appear quite early.