Nikis-Knight
Deity
Go ahead and put that in the bugs thread.
FfH2 0.30 Balance Issues
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Go ahead and put that in the bugs thread.
Broken Hawk
Emperor
I think the AI civs are too quick to use their world spells in the early game rendering them less effective.
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
i was playing a game and Khazad founded both Empyrean and Esus, but didn't adopt either.
wouldn't have been so horrible except it was OCC, and given that researching honors/deception doesn't give you any way of spreading the religion to yourself.
id like to see all the holy city wonders counting as items you can retrieve, and for researching those techs to give you a unit capable of spreading the religion to yourself (honor gives no units at all, and the deception unit cant spread it to you unless you have it as your state religion)
wouldn't have been so horrible except it was OCC, and given that researching honors/deception doesn't give you any way of spreading the religion to yourself.
id like to see all the holy city wonders counting as items you can retrieve, and for researching those techs to give you a unit capable of spreading the religion to yourself (honor gives no units at all, and the deception unit cant spread it to you unless you have it as your state religion)
jenks
Prince
General FFH balance issue:
as with the other thread i am inclined to agree that the Drill promotions tree is not useful enough, particularly now it is easier to get first strikes and become immune to them (with the spell system blur / blades / treetop defence)
as with the other thread i am inclined to agree that the Drill promotions tree is not useful enough, particularly now it is easier to get first strikes and become immune to them (with the spell system blur / blades / treetop defence)
Religions spread way too fast. They were quick in .25, but it seems like they are on Meth now.
Granted, I play most of my games on Marathon, and accept that they will spread faster than other settings due to the upped research times. But, even on Epic, the first religion spreads across continents (long before any contact is made) in under 10 turns. And, even intercontinental, they spread before you have trade routes.
Which brings me to my next point...the "uber-switches" of the Order and AV religions. In my last game, every good civ switched over to AV after Keeyln founded it. Again, the spread was across oceans before contact.
This seems the antithesis to the point of the setting.
When a good civ switches to OO, they only go neutral..same for evil switching to RoK...so, here's my thoughts...
One step rule:
Either the AI will not adopt a religion that moves them further than one step along the alignment chart, or if that is not possible, they only move one step.
So, a good Civ adopting AV would only move to neutral. But, added to that, if that civ researches Malevelont Designs, they move the last step.
On the flip-side, an evil civ moves to neutral with adoption of the Order, but moves the last step with Righteousness.
A neutral civ would move to either good or evil, depending on religion adopted.
Also, the Cult of Dragon is way to early and spreads without trade routes as well. In the last game, my capitol was hit about 10 times between turns 55-80. Twice, I got the pop-up while still in "revolt" from the previous one.
I think it would be cool to see it move to a "barbarian tech". When the barbs build Archeron, it should be founded in that city and start spreading from there. Coupled with the culture from the hoard, it would wreck some pretty good havoc around the dragon lair.
In this, the Kuriorates and the Sheiam would still not be affected, and the cult would survive the capture/razing of the barb city.
Finally, even with raging barbs on in two games, I've seen maybe a total of 5 barb, non-animal, units in both games combined.
Granted, I play most of my games on Marathon, and accept that they will spread faster than other settings due to the upped research times. But, even on Epic, the first religion spreads across continents (long before any contact is made) in under 10 turns. And, even intercontinental, they spread before you have trade routes.
Which brings me to my next point...the "uber-switches" of the Order and AV religions. In my last game, every good civ switched over to AV after Keeyln founded it. Again, the spread was across oceans before contact.
This seems the antithesis to the point of the setting.
When a good civ switches to OO, they only go neutral..same for evil switching to RoK...so, here's my thoughts...
One step rule:
Either the AI will not adopt a religion that moves them further than one step along the alignment chart, or if that is not possible, they only move one step.
So, a good Civ adopting AV would only move to neutral. But, added to that, if that civ researches Malevelont Designs, they move the last step.
On the flip-side, an evil civ moves to neutral with adoption of the Order, but moves the last step with Righteousness.
A neutral civ would move to either good or evil, depending on religion adopted.
Also, the Cult of Dragon is way to early and spreads without trade routes as well. In the last game, my capitol was hit about 10 times between turns 55-80. Twice, I got the pop-up while still in "revolt" from the previous one.
I think it would be cool to see it move to a "barbarian tech". When the barbs build Archeron, it should be founded in that city and start spreading from there. Coupled with the culture from the hoard, it would wreck some pretty good havoc around the dragon lair.
In this, the Kuriorates and the Sheiam would still not be affected, and the cult would survive the capture/razing of the barb city.
Finally, even with raging barbs on in two games, I've seen maybe a total of 5 barb, non-animal, units in both games combined.
Also, I think founded religions should have more weight for the founders. Without a full understanding of the mechanics, it seems to me that , despite having the holy city, it still only counts as "one". Meaning, if a civ has two FoL cities, and founds the Order, they don't convert as most of the populace is still considered FoL because of the "2 to 1" ratio. The holy city should count as multiple cities when factoring in religious influence.
Rex rgis of Ter
Me I'm a Creator
When I played a late start (medival) game, I started with two Baron Halfmoons! My neighbor, the ljosalfar started with two Gilden SIlveric. The other civs had longbows and warriors. Needless to say, I steamrolled them all with Halfmoon.
Maybe have a look at the new level 1 Fire spell. As posted under the original FfH 2 thread, I managed with 2 casts (on neighbouring fields) to burn down a whole continent within 12 turns (i.e. remove all jungles and forests, because it was something of a woodland continent with 70% trees).
It did hurt my enemies too of course, but I lost something like 70% production capacity real fast and was in turn overrun. Thats a pretty powerful effect for a level 1 spell.
It did hurt my enemies too of course, but I lost something like 70% production capacity real fast and was in turn overrun. Thats a pretty powerful effect for a level 1 spell.
Blathergut
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2005
- Messages
- 90
Sidar shades do seem potent...esp. early on, when a scout became a hero by event...and raging barbs to tone up the warriors...
..could they be geared to number of turns maybe?...same way you need to wait 10 turns to change civics...maybe wait x# of turns before turning a shade into a gp???
..could they be geared to number of turns maybe?...same way you need to wait 10 turns to change civics...maybe wait x# of turns before turning a shade into a gp???
YonatanBlum
Warlord
Should crossbowman be more defensively capable than arquebuisiers? I mean, it seems odd that if someone wants late-game defensive units, he would use crossbowmen instead of gunpowder unit. 
Lance Dearnis
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2007
- Messages
- 2
Alright, this isn't uniquely relevant to 030, but for lack of a better place, putting it here. Barbatos and Orthus are causing serious issues seemingly on even more of a widespread scale since Shadow came out. I've seen AI's wiped out on turn 1 by Barbatos, had him in sight of my initial settler and wipe me out a few turns later, had Orthus with his Combat 5 come and burn down my capital within the first 150 turns without taking even a scratch from five defending warriors (As in, 100 HP when I checked odds on attacking him on my next turn.)
I understand barbarians are supposed to be vicious; but still. When your group gets together for a civ game, the sheer frequency of times you get wiped out essentially due to a random event is pretty harsh. 3/7 games this past week, offline and on, were basically decided against me because of an early elite barbarian wrecking me. I know some AI civs got destroyed, too. So perhaps a switch could be added to delay or outright remove just those two barbarians? The fact that Orthus/Barbatos spawning ten tiles away from you and deciding to destroy you is basically up to an RNG that lands on 'kill' this often really takes away from the enjoyment of the game. Since with Combat V, I've not had luck even defending against Orthus with anything short of Shock-capable Copper Swordsmen/Axemen, which basically requires Aggressive as a trait to get in any meaningful quantity. And a downside to not being aggressive should NOT be '43% chance of being destroyed by barbarians regardless of what you do.'
The second issue is something relevant to 030, however. Cult of the Dragon. It really needs to be told to not spread to civilizations on other continents from the founder. Two civilizations that were on a different continent from the founder suffered rioting within 100 turns of it's founding, long before anyone had even built a single ship.
I understand barbarians are supposed to be vicious; but still. When your group gets together for a civ game, the sheer frequency of times you get wiped out essentially due to a random event is pretty harsh. 3/7 games this past week, offline and on, were basically decided against me because of an early elite barbarian wrecking me. I know some AI civs got destroyed, too. So perhaps a switch could be added to delay or outright remove just those two barbarians? The fact that Orthus/Barbatos spawning ten tiles away from you and deciding to destroy you is basically up to an RNG that lands on 'kill' this often really takes away from the enjoyment of the game. Since with Combat V, I've not had luck even defending against Orthus with anything short of Shock-capable Copper Swordsmen/Axemen, which basically requires Aggressive as a trait to get in any meaningful quantity. And a downside to not being aggressive should NOT be '43% chance of being destroyed by barbarians regardless of what you do.'
The second issue is something relevant to 030, however. Cult of the Dragon. It really needs to be told to not spread to civilizations on other continents from the founder. Two civilizations that were on a different continent from the founder suffered rioting within 100 turns of it's founding, long before anyone had even built a single ship.
JayThomas
Warlord
This is something. My one encounter so far with orthus (around turn 50), he walks up to my capital ,which had three fortified warriors with no promotions, and offs himself on his first try.
Verdian
King
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 654
I have finished a Svartalfar game on a medium Pangaea map, Monarch difficulty. I had a lot of fun, but had a few issues.
1) Alazkan (sp?) is incredibly powerful. I love him as a hero. He was my only attacking unit in a conquest victory, and it was easy. Part of it was just how the game set things up for me (giving him Orthas' Axe and getting the shrine of Sirona half-way through my game helped), but there is one thing I think needs to be changed about him. Namely, his mirror image can declare nationality. I would camp outside of a town while still at peace, destroy most of the civ's units, and then declare war. While Alazkan killed the rest of the units hiding in the cities, his mirror could declare nationality and capture/destroy them. Since Alazkan is still HN, I could move into the next Civ's borders and do it again. I annihilated 5 civilizations this way with only Alazkan, and then moved an archer into each city when I was done.
2) I had both the Assassins guild and the Rat Catchers guild very early on. The entire time with them, I had ONE event with either of them. And it was a common event, just with an extra option (the event was the one when your farms are being raided, and you can send soldiers or pay to solve the problem. The Rat Catchers Guild let me make 5 gold off of it raiding.) The Civilopedia entries for both of these guilds say that the main strength of them is their events, so I was very disappointed that nothing came of either of them. I am now playing another game with extra events turned on and the Assassins guild, and I still have yet to receive an event from it at turn 300+.
In summary, I think Alazkan's mirror should not be able to declare nationality, and the Rat Catchers Guild and Assassin's Guild need more events.
Also, Alazkan's mirror can be effected by dragon fear. Is that normal?
1) Alazkan (sp?) is incredibly powerful. I love him as a hero. He was my only attacking unit in a conquest victory, and it was easy. Part of it was just how the game set things up for me (giving him Orthas' Axe and getting the shrine of Sirona half-way through my game helped), but there is one thing I think needs to be changed about him. Namely, his mirror image can declare nationality. I would camp outside of a town while still at peace, destroy most of the civ's units, and then declare war. While Alazkan killed the rest of the units hiding in the cities, his mirror could declare nationality and capture/destroy them. Since Alazkan is still HN, I could move into the next Civ's borders and do it again. I annihilated 5 civilizations this way with only Alazkan, and then moved an archer into each city when I was done.
2) I had both the Assassins guild and the Rat Catchers guild very early on. The entire time with them, I had ONE event with either of them. And it was a common event, just with an extra option (the event was the one when your farms are being raided, and you can send soldiers or pay to solve the problem. The Rat Catchers Guild let me make 5 gold off of it raiding.) The Civilopedia entries for both of these guilds say that the main strength of them is their events, so I was very disappointed that nothing came of either of them. I am now playing another game with extra events turned on and the Assassins guild, and I still have yet to receive an event from it at turn 300+.
In summary, I think Alazkan's mirror should not be able to declare nationality, and the Rat Catchers Guild and Assassin's Guild need more events.
Also, Alazkan's mirror can be effected by dragon fear. Is that normal?
Roghar
Warlord
Perhaps Alazkan's mirror should mirror the neutral/hidden nationailty of Alazkan? Otherwise Alazkan could declare while his mirror didn't, and you just get the same situation?
Yes, but you could only do this once. You can do the other every turn, if desired.
ShadowDrgn
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 50
I'm going to third the annoyances with Cult of the Dragon. It seems to be founded in the first 20 turns every game and then attempts to spread to all cities in the world constantly. It's extremely frustrating and not at all fun.
Scott Alexander
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2005
- Messages
- 57
The turn after the Mercurians cast Divine Retribution, both Hyborem and Stephanos died. I don't think anyone was at war with the Infernals, and Stephanos seemed to be doing pretty well before, so I think that spell alone killed them both. That's pretty powerful, and especially unfair to the Infernals who lost their traits and hero through no fault of their own.
marioflag
History Addict
This is not a Shadow issu but related more to FfH2 in general.
I'm been using Sacrifice of the Weak in last games and it's really OP.
It needs really some nerf, its upkeep should be medium or high at least, there should be also some
per city considering the theme of this civic, or an event like what we have for Slavery in BtS.
Other Compassion civics are honestly not that interesting, which makes Sacrifice of the Weak a no brainer for any AV player.
I'm been using Sacrifice of the Weak in last games and it's really OP.
It needs really some nerf, its upkeep should be medium or high at least, there should be also some
per city considering the theme of this civic, or an event like what we have for Slavery in BtS.Other Compassion civics are honestly not that interesting, which makes Sacrifice of the Weak a no brainer for any AV player.
Grillick
Prince
I really don't think Ancient towers should be upgrading into Castles outside of cultural borders...Forts upgrading into castles, and castles upgrading into citadels is fine, but the ancient towers should just be ancient towers until someone actually starts to use them.
