Minor Annoyance
Deity
I was going to ask what exploits are possible by gifting units, but while playing the Sheaim I realized I can gift away my gate units and get more.
FfH2 0.32 Changelog
- Thread starter Kael
- Start date
Sofista
Deity
Rex rgis of Ter
Me I'm a Creator
I agree with Sofista. Units with the immortal promotion should be used with less caution.
Also, how do we use game options that are not able to be set ffrom the custom start screen? Some would make interesting maps.
Also, how do we use game options that are not able to be set ffrom the custom start screen? Some would make interesting maps.
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
You have to edit the <bVisible>0</bVisible> tag in CIV4GameOptionInfos.xml's define for the option to <bVisible>0</bVisible>.
(Or, if you want it always on, you could set <bDefault>1</bDefault> and <bVisible>1</bVisible>)
And yeah, Immortal units should be very aggressive. Should this be only those with the immortal promotion, or also the units that are intrinsically immortal? If the latter, can we make sure they are only aggressive when they really are immortal (not if they have already died that turn?)
MaxAstro
Spiral Knight
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2007
- Messages
- 645
The really big exploit is gifting Arcane units to another player who then gifts them back; the units will keep getting free promotions. Also, you can gift away permanent summons and resummon them.
There is one major downside to equipment being gifted, though; it's now impossible for team members to give equipment to eachother unless they let a barbarian grab the item first. Perhaps it could be made so that team members can pick up dropped equipment?
MrPopov
King
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2006
- Messages
- 985
I just wanted to point out that Bhuric has updated the unofficial patch 2 days ago so I hope any relevant changes are included in the latest FFH release 
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6827753#post6827753
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6827753#post6827753
xienwolf
Deity
The only 2 of those that matter to FfH are the removal from groups on withdraw, which I am pretty sure Kael did quite a while ago, and the Naval Unit bumping, but I'm not sure when that every actually happens, so I don't know if it matters. Also POSSIBLY the city start location tweaks, but that isn't too likely to matter for FfH, too many rules are different here.
I just play single player (as do a lot of people) and the exploit above seems pretty pointless as do all exploits in single player becuase the only person your cheating is yourself. If i wanted to cheat, i could just go into world builder and do what i wanted so what is the point? I can understand this perfectly for multiplayer games but against the AI - who is the removal of gifting trying to protect? If it is just a menu option, then cant thoes who want it that way just turn it on and off or for multiplayer games.
I know its not a big thing but its a strategy i use often that is also realistic. Throughout history nations have helped thier allies with miltary aid (technology, financial and even troops) instead of just declaring war on a common enemy. Also, as i turn off tech trading (i dont feel its handled fairly by the AI) then i often dont have many options to assist a weaker friend other than iron/broze/horse resourse gifts with some cash.
Please, i know its probably more work to add it as a menu option but please could you at least consider it...
Ahwaric
Shrubbery-hugger
I know its not a big thing but its a strategy i use often that is also realistic. Throughout history nations have helped thier allies with miltary aid (technology, financial and even troops) instead of just declaring war on a common enemy.
Please, i know its probably more work to add it as a menu option but please could you at least consider it...
I could not agree more - I do not realy like this option removed. In single player it doesn't realy matter and in multi disabling it has both good and bad results (equipment, spare animals can't be gifted).
So, an option in menu or at least in an xml (even python) file somewhere would be great
Best with some info what has to be changed...EDIT: Attachable battering ram is a great idea, too
Farmer Bobathan
Sanity is for the weak
^ seconded
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Random thought re: Defensive trait: When a unit with the Homelands trait is killed, the killer gets 50% normal XP. (In addition to its current effects).
Avahz Darkwood
Emperor
I would have to Third that, I have used that to save a weaker civ on my boarder to keep distance and fight proxy wars with a stronger AI. It is a valid stratagy even in todays world....
attackdrone
Warlord
Does the -50% to experience game option come into effect after bonuses from Raider, Valor, and Great Commander have been added, or does it halve the -base- experience?
Rex rgis of Ter
Me I'm a Creator
Wil any more minor leaders be added? They will make interesting gameplay.
Minor Annoyance
Deity
I assume it's not possible to make specific units un-giftable.
while i'm not sure how difficult it would be to block arcane units from getting free promotions when gifted(probably a pain), wouldn't it be fairly easy to block gifting of units to empires you are at war with, and either blocking the gifting of hidden nationality units, or forcing them to declare nationality on gifting. then if you gifted them to someone only to try and recapture them, by the time you could try to recapture them they should be long gone, assuming they went HNat again. or am i missing something.
Zechnophobe
Strategy Lich
Another bit of balance feedback:
Considering the Grigori's first hero can often destroy multiple AI civ's by his lonesome, can we slow it down just a smidge?
Change suggestion:
Grigori Palace provides 1 GPP per turn (Adventurer) instead of 2.
New Unique Grigori Obelisk provides +1 GPP per turn (Adventurer).
This way you get your 2 points only after building your first Obelisk, or if you get the free obelisk event. On the flip side, much earlier on can your non capital cities produce adventurers.
Considering the Grigori's first hero can often destroy multiple AI civ's by his lonesome, can we slow it down just a smidge?
Change suggestion:
Grigori Palace provides 1 GPP per turn (Adventurer) instead of 2.
New Unique Grigori Obelisk provides +1 GPP per turn (Adventurer).
This way you get your 2 points only after building your first Obelisk, or if you get the free obelisk event. On the flip side, much earlier on can your non capital cities produce adventurers.
I just play single player (as do a lot of people) and the exploit above seems pretty pointless as do all exploits in single player becuase the only person your cheating is yourself. If i wanted to cheat, i could just go into world builder and do what i wanted so what is the point? I can understand this perfectly for multiplayer games but against the AI - who is the removal of gifting trying to protect? If it is just a menu option, then cant thoes who want it that way just turn it on and off or for multiplayer games.
I know its not a big thing but its a strategy i use often that is also realistic. Throughout history nations have helped thier allies with miltary aid (technology, financial and even troops) instead of just declaring war on a common enemy. Also, as i turn off tech trading (i dont feel its handled fairly by the AI) then i often dont have many options to assist a weaker friend other than iron/broze/horse resourse gifts with some cash.
Please, i know its probably more work to add it as a menu option but please could you at least consider it...
I agree with this poster and also would like if gifting would remain in SP.
Kael
Deity
I just play single player (as do a lot of people) and the exploit above seems pretty pointless as do all exploits in single player becuase the only person your cheating is yourself. If i wanted to cheat, i could just go into world builder and do what i wanted so what is the point? I can understand this perfectly for multiplayer games but against the AI - who is the removal of gifting trying to protect? If it is just a menu option, then cant thoes who want it that way just turn it on and off or for multiplayer games.
I know its not a big thing but its a strategy i use often that is also realistic. Throughout history nations have helped thier allies with miltary aid (technology, financial and even troops) instead of just declaring war on a common enemy. Also, as i turn off tech trading (i dont feel its handled fairly by the AI) then i often dont have many options to assist a weaker friend other than iron/broze/horse resourse gifts with some cash.
Please, i know its probably more work to add it as a menu option but please could you at least consider it...
There is a difference between cheating through the world builder and cheating by using an option in the game. With the world buidler you know you are cheating and you are making a conscious decision about it. With the other you are just using the tools the developer gave you to the best of your ability. In fact that is one of the major goals of the game, to figure out the system and develop plans for you empire that are effective. The player trusts that the developer has made all the options reasonable and if we have doen our job all reasonable plans are effective without being to powerful.
So one of our respnsibilities are designers is to remove or boost the bad options, and nerf or remove the over powered ones. Gifting is one of those over powered options, one of the most broken since it allows you to circumvent so many of the games balance restrictions.
Adding it as a game option still condones the fact that it is a balanced option. Including broken options is bad game design.
Loki does have an idea for a better way to implement a "gifting" like mechanic. But we need to wait for another mechanic to come through before we can try it out. So we do have plans to bring this sort of functionality back. But not in 0.32.
