Poland is the navel of the world! xd!
(July 4, 1610 – Polish victory over the Russians in the Battle of Klushino. The road to Moscow opens.)
Last edited:
Final 2UC Version - 4.22 (May 31, 2025)
(July 4, 1610 – Polish victory over the Russians in the Battle of Klushino. The road to Moscow opens.)
This is literally the point of it though
If the third option is "don't promise and set up to attack optimally" you might as well remove the whole thing because that's the obvious best option and it's no longer a choice (choices are the entire point of civilization)
Yeah, there should be a difference between those too. Like when you promise not to attack, then they should like you and trust you more, but feel betrayed when you actually attack them. Not promising should make them more catious.
I can attest it is from building barbican, I got it recenty, I had too much culture and my tiles were producing too much food in cities with barbican, I discovered nilometer which I used IGE for VP to get rid of in my cities and had to keep IGE to remove nilometers in cities I built later after building barbicans in them.
TheOrpheus
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I know you aren't quoting me, but initially I brought this up specifically to address when a vassal forced me to either liberate them or declare war on them, which I didn't think was a good binary choice. I conquered them and they capitulated. I shouldn't be forced with a binary choice of "Free me or DoW me", rather it should be them declaring on me if they really want that. I understand why the promise not to attack or DoW on the spot makes sense for an enemy Civ, but not your vassal.
Ah yeah
Agree with this, if the vassal wants to get free than it should be them firing the first shot.
A vassal suspending tribute isn't really an act of aggression. It's up to the master to raise an army if they want to preserve it. I think vassalage is only really meant as a temporary arrangement before autocracy, and it carries the same negative connotations as warmongering which is why it's on the master to take the diplo hit.
I do think a victorious war started by this request should allow immediate capitulation. That just seems like an oversight.
TheOrpheus
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That seems like a fair compromise to me.
Argentino
Chieftain
Fully agree with this. Just happened in my latest game and it was annoying.
Doesn't matter since you get no warmonger penalty for it. I removed that some versions ago.
TheOrpheus
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Warmonger penalty is the least of my concerns really. It's the fact that my vassal can unexpectedly force a war on me, likely directly on my borders, and my only other choice in the moment is to liberate them. That's extremely annoying. Especially as it's a war they can't likely win, but will cause an extreme inconvenience for me. Maybe it should be that they ask for liberation, and if I deny them, there is a % chance that they will declare war on the spot. Why is the choice "liberate me or declare war"? The choice should be "liberate me or I might rebel". The two choices as it stand don't really make sense. I obviously crushed them hard enough for them to capitulate already. The war is already won.
From the vassal's perspective, it's one of the only ways of wielding leverage over the master, and the only way of being able to break free and resume the game. It's an intended drawback of vassalizing instead of just killing them.
TheOrpheus
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Fair enough. That's logical. It's still super annoying though. lol. But I guess it makes sense. I just wonder why I've never really had to deal with that before. I've had them DoW before, or complain about taxes. But never offer me the choice of liberate or DoW.
If it really annoys you there's always DIPLOAI_DISABLE_INDEPENDENCE_REQUESTS in DiploAIOptions.sql.
TheOrpheus
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awesome! thank you.
Added Elon's latest technological marvel to the changelog.
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Learn to not stack up on the border.
There is a loophope if the AI have DP, stack up, promise to not attack and then dow the DP AI.
This mechanic also allow the same against the agressive AIs who will happily throw away stuff to declare from suboptimal situation/position.
I don't need condescending explanations of how to avoid this or the reason for why it exists.
I get it. I just don't like it.
If you see my troops prepping for attack, feel free to attack them first, but don't force me to be the one declaring.
Yes, if "we neither confirm nor deny our intention to attack" was an option, it would be the best one, removing some choice.
That's not a problem for me.
It's far more annoying to accidentally trigger this dialog 'cause their culture expanded and suddenly they see two more units than they did before, putting them above the threshold for how many units they're ok with.
It's gamey and unrealistic.
I get it. I just don't like it.
If you see my troops prepping for attack, feel free to attack them first, but don't force me to be the one declaring.
Yes, if "we neither confirm nor deny our intention to attack" was an option, it would be the best one, removing some choice.
That's not a problem for me.
It's far more annoying to accidentally trigger this dialog 'cause their culture expanded and suddenly they see two more units than they did before, putting them above the threshold for how many units they're ok with.
It's gamey and unrealistic.
