Final Fixes Reborn
- Thread starter Ronkhar
- Start date
Llewen
Warlord
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2004
- Messages
- 275
The Silver Circle is a wonder that works a bit like a corporation for alchemists. Building it allows you to build alchemists which can build enchanters enclaves in your cities which add commerce. The alchemists can also go on trade missions. It's an economic module. It might be fun to see it actually do something magical as well, such as adding a training modifier for arcane units.
EVENT SUGGESTIONS
Presently there's a number of events that vary from unfairly weighted to basically just useless wastes of a pop-up. There's way more than what I'm listing that deserves a look, a fresh coat of paint, or perhaps the axe, but off the top of my head for the moment:
Prophet Constellation
There's one of these for Good and for Evil that let you pay a lump sum of gold to get a Great Prophet, or else take a research boost. This event is pretty powerful, punishes Neutral leaders, and given its earliness and relative high likelihood can create ridiculous swings for strategies that benefit from rushing religion or having early gold income. Great Prophets are amazing all-around boosts to the city they settle in even if you're not using them to out-tech your neighbors.
Suggestion: Instead of two events with two signs, make one event with a single uncertain sign that allows each alignment to interpret it (for 100 gold) for similar-but-slightly-randomized bonuses. One event, four options:
GOOD: It's Lugus' constellation. Equal chance of Great Prophet, Great Artist, or Great Healer.
EVIL: It's Cerwiden's constellation. Equal chance of Great Prophet, Great Artist, or Great Sage.
NEUTRAL: It's Dagda's constellation. Equal chance of Great Artist, Great Merchant, or Great Engineer.
TOO POOR: The signs are difficult to read; this confrontation with the unknown has spurred the curiosity of your people's most intelligent. Large research boost and possibly an infusion of random GPP if you can do that.
Suddenly Elf
There's an event where you find a lost elven community in a random forest. You can leave them be for a free hamlet, which is cool, or set it on fire for uncertain results, which is garbage because the reward is bad and now you have a fire situation, or you can welcome them home if you're elves for a population boost, which is also kinda lame, or if you're Good you get a free archer with Dexterous even before Archery, solving all your defense needs for like a hundred turns in that city. This event can even fire more than once for more archers. This isn't great.
Suggestion: Five options. Good-exclusive, Neutral-exclusive, Neutral-open, Evil-exclusive, Elf-exclusive.
Good-exclusive: You get an elvish WARRIOR with Dexterous.
Neutral-exclusive: The elves offer a trading arrangement and formally join your society. +1 population in nearest city, random forest resource spawns.
Neutral-open: You leave them be. Free hamlet on the forest tile.
Evil-exclusive: You don't leave them be. An Enraged elvish Scout spawns within 1-2 tiles, but you get a free camp with +1 hammer and +1 commerce on the tile.
Ljosalfar/Svartalfar/Hamstalfar-exclusive: You get the benefits of both Good-exclusive and Evil-exclusive, without the enraged Scout.
Terraforming Astrology
I hate these so much. Does anyone like them? They just screw up tiles for hideous amounts of time for no reason and waste event slots that could have been something significant or interesting.
Suggestion: Remove all Sign of Bhall/Sign of Mulcarn events.
Murder Mystery
It's a cool idea but the lack of effective randomization - you can't have a challenge both random AND it takes thinking, best you could do is have a ton of copies of the event with different descriptions to indicate different right answers - means if you've solved it once you've solved it forever, and the small happiness bonus isn't really interesting.
Suggestion: Probably axe. The "do you want to recruit this crazy murderer" event is a better model for handling this sort of thing, although that event could use a look because I've never wanted a mid-tier melee unit that will eventually go barbarian on me as an event reward personally.
Assassination Attempt
If you're Good, assassination attempts are a free +1 happiness in the city the event triggers in. For everyone else it's just random diplomatic penalties. Or some food for the Calabim, I think.
Suggestion: More variance. Make the event require someone to have Poisons, also, if it doesn't already.
Neutral-open: Start an investigation. Random diplomatic bonuses and penalties.
Neutral-exclusive: Hire the assassin. Get an assassin with a random race.
Evil-exclusive: Make an example. Get a Grand Gallows building that adds +2 culture, -10% war weariness, -10% maintenance.
Good-exclusive: Redeem them. Free priest specialist, +1 happy in the city, -5 to the Armageddon Counter.
Calabim-exclusive: Turn them. Get an assassin with Vampirism.
GENERAL SUGGESTION
I don't remember if I've said this before, but the AI doesn't know how to manage the high upkeep cost of Fort Commanders. In particular this is harmful to dwarves, who build dwarven mines that then drain the vaults they're supposed to be invested in filling. Players can just delete a commander but the AI doesn't know about that and it's an annoying vulnerability as a player too.
Suggestion: Dwarven Mines instead should work like Ancient Forests for FoL players; enemy units stepping on them have a chance to force the unit off and spawn an Enraged Dwarven Champion. They should not be forts at all.
Presently there's a number of events that vary from unfairly weighted to basically just useless wastes of a pop-up. There's way more than what I'm listing that deserves a look, a fresh coat of paint, or perhaps the axe, but off the top of my head for the moment:
Prophet Constellation
There's one of these for Good and for Evil that let you pay a lump sum of gold to get a Great Prophet, or else take a research boost. This event is pretty powerful, punishes Neutral leaders, and given its earliness and relative high likelihood can create ridiculous swings for strategies that benefit from rushing religion or having early gold income. Great Prophets are amazing all-around boosts to the city they settle in even if you're not using them to out-tech your neighbors.
Suggestion: Instead of two events with two signs, make one event with a single uncertain sign that allows each alignment to interpret it (for 100 gold) for similar-but-slightly-randomized bonuses. One event, four options:
GOOD: It's Lugus' constellation. Equal chance of Great Prophet, Great Artist, or Great Healer.
EVIL: It's Cerwiden's constellation. Equal chance of Great Prophet, Great Artist, or Great Sage.
NEUTRAL: It's Dagda's constellation. Equal chance of Great Artist, Great Merchant, or Great Engineer.
TOO POOR: The signs are difficult to read; this confrontation with the unknown has spurred the curiosity of your people's most intelligent. Large research boost and possibly an infusion of random GPP if you can do that.
Suddenly Elf
There's an event where you find a lost elven community in a random forest. You can leave them be for a free hamlet, which is cool, or set it on fire for uncertain results, which is garbage because the reward is bad and now you have a fire situation, or you can welcome them home if you're elves for a population boost, which is also kinda lame, or if you're Good you get a free archer with Dexterous even before Archery, solving all your defense needs for like a hundred turns in that city. This event can even fire more than once for more archers. This isn't great.
Suggestion: Five options. Good-exclusive, Neutral-exclusive, Neutral-open, Evil-exclusive, Elf-exclusive.
Good-exclusive: You get an elvish WARRIOR with Dexterous.
Neutral-exclusive: The elves offer a trading arrangement and formally join your society. +1 population in nearest city, random forest resource spawns.
Neutral-open: You leave them be. Free hamlet on the forest tile.
Evil-exclusive: You don't leave them be. An Enraged elvish Scout spawns within 1-2 tiles, but you get a free camp with +1 hammer and +1 commerce on the tile.
Ljosalfar/Svartalfar/Hamstalfar-exclusive: You get the benefits of both Good-exclusive and Evil-exclusive, without the enraged Scout.
Terraforming Astrology
I hate these so much. Does anyone like them? They just screw up tiles for hideous amounts of time for no reason and waste event slots that could have been something significant or interesting.
Suggestion: Remove all Sign of Bhall/Sign of Mulcarn events.
Murder Mystery
It's a cool idea but the lack of effective randomization - you can't have a challenge both random AND it takes thinking, best you could do is have a ton of copies of the event with different descriptions to indicate different right answers - means if you've solved it once you've solved it forever, and the small happiness bonus isn't really interesting.
Suggestion: Probably axe. The "do you want to recruit this crazy murderer" event is a better model for handling this sort of thing, although that event could use a look because I've never wanted a mid-tier melee unit that will eventually go barbarian on me as an event reward personally.
Assassination Attempt
If you're Good, assassination attempts are a free +1 happiness in the city the event triggers in. For everyone else it's just random diplomatic penalties. Or some food for the Calabim, I think.
Suggestion: More variance. Make the event require someone to have Poisons, also, if it doesn't already.
Neutral-open: Start an investigation. Random diplomatic bonuses and penalties.
Neutral-exclusive: Hire the assassin. Get an assassin with a random race.
Evil-exclusive: Make an example. Get a Grand Gallows building that adds +2 culture, -10% war weariness, -10% maintenance.
Good-exclusive: Redeem them. Free priest specialist, +1 happy in the city, -5 to the Armageddon Counter.
Calabim-exclusive: Turn them. Get an assassin with Vampirism.
GENERAL SUGGESTION
I don't remember if I've said this before, but the AI doesn't know how to manage the high upkeep cost of Fort Commanders. In particular this is harmful to dwarves, who build dwarven mines that then drain the vaults they're supposed to be invested in filling. Players can just delete a commander but the AI doesn't know about that and it's an annoying vulnerability as a player too.
Suggestion: Dwarven Mines instead should work like Ancient Forests for FoL players; enemy units stepping on them have a chance to force the unit off and spawn an Enraged Dwarven Champion. They should not be forts at all.
black_imperator
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2005
- Messages
- 2,020
The Twenty-One constellations events are gonna get axed once i have time to set up the system that was planned early ffh. Basically, the original idea is that one constellation is active at a time, the same for every one with a small effect. It randomly changes every x turns, with rituals being able to weigh on the random choice.
I already have the setup for the system but i need to think on the effects .
For the other events, i want to remove the alignment-exclusive options, turning them into alignment-moving options. I do like some of your ideas though.
For the Dwarven mines, i've been meaning to fix that for a while, i'll try to get to it.
I already have the setup for the system but i need to think on the effects .
For the other events, i want to remove the alignment-exclusive options, turning them into alignment-moving options. I do like some of your ideas though.
For the Dwarven mines, i've been meaning to fix that for a while, i'll try to get to it.
Fresh Steam-based Windows 10 SVN install on a friend's computer has produced the following errors:
There's like a 60% chance the game will either crash during initialization, load in to an endless flat grassland, or load in with no interface. If it loads with no interface but the map is there, reloading the initial save can restore the interface. However, following that, a seemingly-random unit (saw it happen to a Bloodpet as well as the more logically recon Scout) receives Aeron's Chosen on turn 2. Later, the Barbarians at the Gates event fired - with no barbarians in the BFC - and all four choices were unlocked for Decius, which I feel like is probably not meant to happen. Whatever it is that checks for conditions to be met appears to be breaking.
I should have written it down but I don't honestly remember how I made this stuff stop happening on my computer. I think the most annoying part is that starting the game exactly the same way has totally variable results - something has to be happening during initialization but that's a big box of somethings I can't directly examine.
EDIT: After some light testing, if a game starts with infinite grassland and no interface, exiting to the menu and trying again produced the same result four times in a row. Maybe it IS somehow determined when the game actually launches. But nothing's changing in that process - map initialization is the only randomized part of what's going on. Why would starting the game from Steam be variable?
There's like a 60% chance the game will either crash during initialization, load in to an endless flat grassland, or load in with no interface. If it loads with no interface but the map is there, reloading the initial save can restore the interface. However, following that, a seemingly-random unit (saw it happen to a Bloodpet as well as the more logically recon Scout) receives Aeron's Chosen on turn 2. Later, the Barbarians at the Gates event fired - with no barbarians in the BFC - and all four choices were unlocked for Decius, which I feel like is probably not meant to happen. Whatever it is that checks for conditions to be met appears to be breaking.
I should have written it down but I don't honestly remember how I made this stuff stop happening on my computer. I think the most annoying part is that starting the game exactly the same way has totally variable results - something has to be happening during initialization but that's a big box of somethings I can't directly examine.
EDIT: After some light testing, if a game starts with infinite grassland and no interface, exiting to the menu and trying again produced the same result four times in a row. Maybe it IS somehow determined when the game actually launches. But nothing's changing in that process - map initialization is the only randomized part of what's going on. Why would starting the game from Steam be variable?
Last edited:
black_imperator
Deity
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Everything that doesn't seem to work in this case is python related. So somehow the python part of the code occasionally doesn't boot when starting from steam. Get me the logs if possible, i might see something in them.
That set of circumstances is a rather common occurence - certainly the missing interface and the Aeron's Chosen happen semi-regularly to me as well.
Which logs would you want? And where would they be stored?
black_imperator
Deity
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all the log files in C:/User/My Documents/My Games /Bts/Logs
black_imperator
Deity
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Thanks for that.
As usual, if anyone is interested in helping, there's plenty of xml stuff to be done ( related to events for example) that i don't really have time to do at the moment.
As usual, if anyone is interested in helping, there's plenty of xml stuff to be done ( related to events for example) that i don't really have time to do at the moment.
black_imperator
Deity
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it should be a simple city spell like the other world spells, no particular requirement that i know of.
black_imperator
Deity
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good catch, there was a typo in the file name for both her and volanna, will be fixed next commit
Missing interface. Can give game settings and active modules if need be.
Installed the mod on New Year's Eve if that helps for version checking.
EDIT: Added another log folder; had the same missing interface for the same game. Might be different things missing but I'm not sure.
EDIT2: Attached the save game - it fully loaded on the third attempt.
Installed the mod on New Year's Eve if that helps for version checking.
EDIT: Added another log folder; had the same missing interface for the same game. Might be different things missing but I'm not sure.
EDIT2: Attached the save game - it fully loaded on the third attempt.
Last edited:
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
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- 5,485
I am a tad confused by the downloads here. In particular, the main download is version 14.11 but than there is a patch that reverts a different version down to that. Er... is that supposed to be the other way round? Or is there like a hidden 1.4 version that is no good but people downloaded it anyway and now have to downgrade? Or like... confused.
black_imperator
Deity
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the 14.11 is the only needed normal download, the 14.4 patch was for people with earlier versions.
The other possibility is the svn beta download which is updated more often. (i'll do a proper release once i've fleshed out a few systems and balanced some issues)
The other possibility is the svn beta download which is updated more often. (i'll do a proper release once i've fleshed out a few systems and balanced some issues)
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