Finalizing v1.11

[Leoreth]

Fixed the issue of duplicate techs in the improvement section and duplicate improvements in the tech section of the civilopedia.

Edit: another thing, I also want to add some yield upgrades for certain improvements to techs, but can't find the original suggestion that prompted the discussion. I think it was mainly about pastures? I could think of:

+1 food for pastures with Refrigeration
+1 production with railroads (the improvement)

 

[trevor]

Last couple pages of the Argentine thread:

In general Pastures and Plantations need extra bonus in their late game yields. Otherwise they are not worth it compared to Cottages/Watermills/Windmills. Not just for Argentina - for everyone.

Plantation: +1 with Railroad, +1 with Biology.

Pasture: +1 with Railroad, +1 with Refrigeration.

By Railroad I mean Railroad improvement on the tile, which requires the Railroad tech. The same way how Railroad improvement increases the yield of Mines, Quarries, and Lumbermills by +1 . By Biology and Refrigeration I mean just the techs, like how Printing Press improve the yields of Villages and Towns just by discovering the tech.

Yeah, sorry I forgot about Camps. Fur obsoletes with Plastics (Why? Does Sid Meier support PETA or something?), so I'd Cottage/Lumbermill over Fur resources anyway. But Camp also has the advantage of keeping the Forest, and the +0.4 from that is often quite useful.

The exact Yield bonuses to Pastures, Plantations and Camps can be estimated by making them as good as or slightly better than Watermills, Windmills, and Towns. Anyone can work out the numbers themselves, but I think Leoreth with his German precision would double check the numbers anyway, so I leave that to him.

The point I'm making is to tie these late game Yield bonuses to the Railroad improvement (the player has little incentive to build Railroads over most of their tiles otherwise, which I think should be changed), and Biology/Refrigeration techs (for realism as well as balance - Ecology makes sense but is a bit too late).

Edit: On a related note, Cold Storage Plant could give extra Yield bonuses to Pasture resources within the city's radius (instead of a % commerce bonus). That would make it slightly more realistic and interesting IMO. Same with the Brazilian UB and Plantation resources.

 

[Leoreth]

Thanks, that was fast. Commerce with railroads is interesting, didn't remember that.

Also, for Camps: I've seen that History Rewritten allows to build forest preserves on camp resources (regardless of forest) with additional commerce, but without increased food and production (I assume to represent wildlife reserves and their tourism income instead of hunting down the animals). I thought that was kind of neat, and could work out well if the commerce is high enough to warrant a change once the resource itself expires.

 

[ales_]

Here is my chart, updated to 1.11.
Will you include it in the download of the mod?

 

[ales_]

Leoreth, have you seen my post?

 

[Leoreth]

You mean the post in which you ask whether I've seen your post, or another post?

(Yes.)

 

[ales_]

Post #44.

 

[jammerculture]

So i'm derping along and something catches my eye. v1.11? What the deuce?

Leoreth, you've been busy, made a lot of changes. Still wearing the same t-shirt though........

 

[Wondering Kid]

I'd recommend slapping in the instrumental versions of the national anthems of Mexico, Argentina and Colombia for diplomusic. If you do have time, you could also do that with the Peruvian anthem for the Incan respawn. Those are the most fitting thing I can come up with, as several martial songs are in disuse nowadays due to umm... negative connotations in those countries.

 

[artyom]

can like, civic transition stability penalty just be a temporary hit instead of a permanent? Like just for 10 turns or smth

 

[Oregon Lee]

can like, civic transition stability penalty just be a temporary hit instead of a permanent? Like just for 10 turns or smth

All stability restarts after a civilization collapses. If you have a large empire, and the government is constantly overthrown and a new one is in place, then cities will naturally start wanting autonomy.

 

[artyom]

countries dont get a permanent stability penalty due to government change sometime in the past. If this was the case, China would be immensly unstable.

Anarchy period in the game is enough of a penalty for a transition already

But I see the permanent stability as more of a gameplay fault. Because of this penalty, I often find myself not adopting certain civics at certain times. Examples may be adopting beruacracy/mercantilism for european countries, or getting occupation for turkey (in thge turkey example, I am not sure the stability hit for transition is worth more or less than the stability gain from running occupation and capturing cities)

 

[Oregon Lee]

countries dont get a permanent stability penalty due to government change sometime in the past. If this was the case, China would be immensly unstable.

Anarchy period in the game is enough of a penalty for a transition already

But I see the permanent stability as more of a gameplay fault. Because of this penalty, I often find myself not adopting certain civics at certain times. Examples may be adopting beruacracy/mercantilism for european countries, or getting occupation for turkey (in thge turkey example, I am not sure the stability hit for transition is worth more or less than the stability gain from running occupation and capturing cities)

Ah! But China did collapse several times, didn't it?
And I don't think anarchy is enough of a penalty. How is it realistic to keep every single one of your cities, no matter how far, after your leader is executed on a guillotine and a new government is in place?
The permanent hit is only -3, I believe. So it's worth transitioning to all those. -3 in the grand scheme isn't that much. You can cancel that by persecuting some foreign religions or making a few courthouses.

 

[artyom]

i thought it was like -10.
But still, the combination of anarchy and pemanent stability makes transition unfeasable in many cases where it would be historically accurate to transition (bueruacracy/mercantilism for example).

This isnt even about losing cities, as a careful player will never lose them whether the penalty exists or not.

 

[Tigranes]

- balance the new civs and their UHVs (feedback here please)
(This thread is not for discussion purposes.)

4 Pastures in 1880 is pushing human player to annihilate Argentina.

I understand that original intention was to replicate the Latin American wars . Indeed during Platine War Brazilian troops marched in Buenos Aires, but Argentina survived. It would be strange to introduce the whole Latin American affairs, just to demand from human player to ensure Argentinas destruction.

"Pillage" 5 or 6 Pastures in Latin America could be more balanced and realistic approach. This would theoretically require to have at least 2 Wars with Argentina (and to have Argentina alive), allowing them to rebuild their pastures for the second pillage.

Alternatively destroying 20 Latin American units can be another balanced thing. "Controlling" pastures means ruling over Argentina, which was not the case.

 

[Leoreth]

Has anyone managed to complete the first Colombian goal on normal? I'm currently thinking about making it a little easier:

- require only Gran Colombia, Peru, the Guayanas and the Caribbean, so you're not screwed by a stable Portugal or passive Argentina (also, to leave something to do for the second goal)
- move the deadline to 1870 AD

Thoughts?

(I have also given 2 XP to their starting stack and let them start with an additional Galleon and Frigate.)

 

[apenpaap]

I think it's more fun if there's a civ with a goal to control all Latin-America in the game, so I'm more in favour of giving them a more generous time limit.

 

[Leoreth]

The second goal will remain all of South America, so you have to control everything in the end anyway. Currently depending on Peru's respawn and the situation in Argentina/Chile you almost have to finish the second goal too to win the first one and that doesn't seem right.

 

[luckeitor]

Indeed during Platine War Brazilian troops marched in Buenos Aires, but Argentina survived.

That never happened

 

[Tigranes]

That never happened

To mark their victory, the Allied troops marched in triumph through the streets of Buenos Aires. The parades included the Brazilian Army, which insisted that their triumphal procession take place on 20 February, to mark payback for the defeat it had suffered at the Battle of Ituzaingó twenty five years before on that date. The population of Buenos Aires was said to have looked on silently with a combination of shame and hostility as the Brazilians passed.

Do you think I just invent things?