Finally, A Restaurant That Smartened Up
- Thread starter Commodore
- Start date
It remains to be seen whether this is smarter. With restaurants' razor thin margins, will consumers still frequent the place, and will their profits be sustainable? Don't know. Also, their employees are contract and not at-will. I don't think that is smart.
SS-18 ICBM
Oscillator
Why was it necessary to ban tipping?
Probably so their servers would no longer be considered tipped workers. I'm not entirely sure of the details, but I'm pretty sure not being considered a tipped worker is a net positive for the worker.
The article does say though that tips given by customers who insist on tipping will go towards a program the restaurant runs that teaches children how to cook.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
It puts the burden of a workable wage being paid to the employee on the customer - not on the employer. It's unfair to both the customer and employee. It works out well enough for the employer.
Not that I think that tipping needs to be banned, but it would be better if it went away. (Not that that's going to happen anytime soon)
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Employers are still going to shift that on the consumers, any way you pitch it. But still, many things in US are dirt cheap compared to everything else in the world.
ArneHD
Just a little bit mad
But aren't the restaurants already shifting the cost onto the customers through tipping? This just seems like an initiative to make everything clear upfront.
Kozmos
Jew Detective
Maybe the cost of conscience which is easier for a business to bear than an individual.
Angst
Rambling and inconsistent
The US tipping policy is despicable. The restaurant's actions should be institutionalized, rather than voluntary. This way, it's not certain it can make profits.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Perhaps only non-chain ones. I don't see resteraunts like Chillis, Applebee's, and other resteraunt franchises doing this.
Their food is awful though, so it doesn't really matter what their tipping policy is as they should be avoided anyway.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
That's true, whenever I'm in the U.S., even in more expensive states like California, everything is cheap, especially restaurants.
But you forget that we tip up here in Canada too - we adopt a lot of your cultural artefacts, whether good or bad. And here our food is expensive and our waiters and waitresses actually make minimum wage - yet the expectation still exists to leave a 10-20% tip. Which I always do... but in the U.S. I tip more because i know that the waitresses make a lot less (in some states $2.14 an hour I believe).. and because the food is so cheap anyway.
Mind you for some reason there is no difference between what you are expected to tip in states where waitresses make $2.14 an hour and in states where they make minimum wage. How does that make sense? It seems to be a rather blatant gouging of the customer.
So here's the key question, how much can a tipped waiter expect to make per year in an "average" restaurant in an "average" city in the US? It's not clear to me that they make less than $35k. In fact I remember talking to some bartenders and they made more than an engineer fresh from college (a good but not great company in the US will pay engineers fresh from college around $65k a year). Granted, bartenders probably make much more than regular waiters, but still.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
One reason that a lot of waiters and waitresses are against abolishing the tip is that it is possible to make quite a bit of money.. From what I've heard you've pretty much got to get lucky - get the right restaurant, the right hours, etc. Most don't, but some of these people make quite a killing. That, and a lot of them blatantly commit fraud by not reporting their earnings to the IRS.
And yet I continue to tip anyway, because I know that the person serving me might need a couple extra bucks to just get by. It's a horrible and degrading system, and restaurants are going to do everything possible to keep it around. A restaurant here and there not allowing tips is a step in the right direction - but unless these restaurants become overnight financial success stories that sets them aside from restaurants where tipping happens - I don't see it really changing much. The only way things will change if the "no tip" business model is more attractive to restaurant owners - and it just never will be, unless there is some sort of a law coming down from above forcing their hands.
And yet I continue to tip anyway, because I know that the person serving me might need a couple extra bucks to just get by. It's a horrible and degrading system, and restaurants are going to do everything possible to keep it around. A restaurant here and there not allowing tips is a step in the right direction - but unless these restaurants become overnight financial success stories that sets them aside from restaurants where tipping happens - I don't see it really changing much. The only way things will change if the "no tip" business model is more attractive to restaurant owners - and it just never will be, unless there is some sort of a law coming down from above forcing their hands.
Is it the tipping that makes the whole thing degrading though, or is it the a-holes who treat waiters like their own personal servants?
I mean, we don't have a tipping system in Brazil, and yet several waiters are still mistreated and degraded by a-hole customers.
I mean, we don't have a tipping system in Brazil, and yet several waiters are still mistreated and degraded by a-hole customers.
I would say in the US it is both that make the situation degrading because not only do you have customers treating waiters like crap, but then those waiters have to essentially beg those customers for their pay.
useless
Social Justice Rogue
I don't tip, i don't believe in it, as in i literally don't believe it exists
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I meant that it's degrading for the employers to not pay their employees a living wage - and putting the onus on the customer. It's degrading to the employee first and foremost - and to the customer to a lesser degree.
When I moved to Canada everyone told me that tipping is an optional, if usually expected, way to reward someone for good service. I did not figure out that it is instead a way for waiters and waitresses to earn a living wage until much later.
I think either way we all need to be a lot more honest about what tipping is - and how it works. Some people just don't get it, because nobody wants to talk about it.
I am not trying to put you on the spot as I don't really think they are the same, but I am wondering how you feel about salesmen who get paid on commission?
I hate tipping, because I never wanted to be waited on in the first place. I prefer buffet style. I know what I want, and I have no need for appetizers, or courses, or a middle man. The whole thing seems to be a relic of the past, to create the illusion of servants and nobility. And everybody perceives these places as somehow "nicer". My idea of nicer is to have smart gadgets on every table to interface directly with the cashier and the chef. And maybe someone to bring my order, because I'm focused on the table conversation or my tablet.
I have no issue with the degrading nature of it. That is what a waiter is, by design: a servant designed to make you feel like nobility. If you don't like it, then eliminate the position.
I have no issue with the degrading nature of it. That is what a waiter is, by design: a servant designed to make you feel like nobility. If you don't like it, then eliminate the position.
