First few techs

[JujuLautre]

This is my first strategic question in cfc after lot's of reading. Thanks by advance for any answer

The fact is that these days, it seems to me that BW is quite a no-brainer in the early beginning (first 3-4 techs), mostly because it's a huge production boost (chop + ), but I was wondering if I got somethin wrong (btw, I play on noble-epic-random leader-fractal or random maps-no warlords, and will soon try Prince since I did not lose any game (if you except those I stopped in 2000BC because they didn't sound appealing.))

Obiously, there is no standard answer as such as "BW 1st is a priority" I think. SO I would like to share with you my thoughts about this to see if I get things all wrong or not.

What tech can I want in the beginning and why?
- Bronze Working: obviously for the production boost, which includes mines, chop and whipping, and also for an early military unit (both offensive and defensive imho)
This one is a huge boost, and I realize this is always my 1st or second early target, and opens early war

- Myst/Poly/Meditation: for culture (religion/stonehenge/monument) and happiness (religion); also opens oracle
Seems less appealing (except monuments, needed if not creative), but in some cases (cultural, personnal behaviour) can be a good target

- Masonnry: for pyramids
Should not be a priority since the pyramids are a huge investissement; also usually require stone and/or industrious

- Pottery: cottage obv, for science
Seems to me as a priority if financial (+river); other reasons?

- The wheel/animal husbandry: for chariots, another early unit
No brainer if egypt or persia and lust for an early war; but beside from this, why this over BW, which offer both the unit and a production boost?

- Archery: Early defensive unit;
Same as chariots: why this over BW?

- Worker techs: for faster development
Is a priority, but perhaps not the first since: mining and irrigation can also be available at the beginning, pottery/BW/AH are other targets that include worker techs, and because the worker has to wait before it's produced.

SO here I stand. It does not seem completly wrong to me, but the main question is: in which order? Why prioritize one of these over BW?
Pottery if financial, AH if egypt/persia, no forests, and the lust for an early religion seems to me the main reasons; but It never seems to me that the other targets are worth delaying BW. Any thoughts on this last questions?

 

[Killroyan]

All depending on your starting site. If there cows/pigs/sheep present prioritize AH. If corn/wheat/rice present then agriculture, etc.... However I mostly get BW like the third or fourth tech always.

Also depending on your gamestyle. If you want to have a good diplomatic game or culture win then religion are the way to go (that is if you can spread your religion enough).

 

[Sjaramei]

Animal husbandry first for me. Then Bronze working, and after that the wheel. Only times i go BW first is when i have workboat start and no animals in my capital.

When your first settlers finishes, you will see both horse/copper so you can pick the closest one to defend from barbs.

But at your difficulty it won't matter that much (even religion is viable)
Bronze working first works just fine, chopping and slavery fast is good too.

(if i go BW first, my worker runs out of work. I always start building worker first)

 

[Mutineer]

Main reason to research pottery is not for cottages, but for Granary.

Granary is needed for efficient whipping.

 

[JujuLautre]

All depending on your starting site. If there cows/pigs/sheep present prioritize AH. If corn/wheat/rice present then agriculture, etc....

This is included in "worker techs"

However I mostly get BW like the third or fourth tech always.

So basically we are a lot the same

When your first settlers finishes, you will see both horse/copper so you can pick the closest one to defend from barbs.

Imho, copper is the third use (in chronological order) of BW; the first one is chop-timber!-ping, and the second the whip, so basically production, which don't have to wait for a settler to be efficient. And perhaps it won't matter, but I like to do things right and to learn

Main reason to research pottery is not for cottages, but for Granary.

You obviously have a point here, but which again leads us to bronze working
So, BW first to chop/whip granary, or pottery first to start granaries earlier? (and finish with chop/whip?) (and expansive changes the equation obv)
Btw, I almost always start my granary after the first settler because I feel early landgrabbing is too important to miss, so at my level granaries are almost always available at this point; is this different in higher level? Or is this strategy wrong?

 

[Jorunkun]

You are certainly right in that BW is a key tech in the first sixth of the tree. But I wouldn't say that you should beeline to it first thing in every game.

If I start coastal with a fish ressource in reach, I usually go fishing first. If I don't, I will get the worker tech to boost at least one food ressource, and sometimes follow up with wheel and pottery before I go BW. And in a religious game, you'll obviously want to go down the mysticism branch first.

Won't prioritise any other techs before BW though.

J.

PS: 日本人ですか？

 

[JujuLautre]

Won't prioritise any other techs before BW though.

J.

PS: 日本人ですか？

Thanks for your answer. And no, I'm not Japanese, just a french guy who lives over here

 

[cabert]

Thanks for your answer. And no, I'm not Japanese, just a french guy who lives over here

greetings from France then
IMHO you need BW before pottery. You want to see where the copper for your first or second settler.
+ a granary can be whipped too

 

[volkanbadem]

granaries are very important.when i have a granary, the population grows really fast, nearly 1 person per turn for 4-5 people, when you use your
4+ food bringing sources.so that the populations increases very fast after you whipped.

 

[Meanness]

Monarch vanilla/random leader/shuffle map player.

Mining/BW first. Chop out that second worker/first settler and build your second city near the copper. No other tech allows you to churn out worker #2 and a settler so quickly. After BW, I usually go AH, Agri, Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alpha.

If I'm playing a civ that starts with Mysticism, I'll generally research Polytheism first to found Hinduism, and then go straight for BW.

 

[JujuLautre]

Mining/BW first. Chop out that second worker/first settler and build your second city near the copper. No other tech allows you to churn out worker #2 and a settler so quickly. After BW, I usually go AH, Agri, Wheel, Pottery, Writing, Alpha.

If I'm playing a civ that starts with Mysticism, I'll generally research Polytheism first to found Hinduism, and then go straight for BW.

This is somehow where my problem stands. I like to see new thins when playing Civ, and going always the same strategy is actually efficient, but, well... There is absolutely no originality here
So, to sum up things an other way, I'm trying to find the cases where I want things before BW: typically worker techs (so that your first worker doesn't stand in the middle of nowhere not knowing what to do with his hands ), pottery if I want early cottages/granaries, mysticism if I want an early religion.
But what about the others? Is roads/AH worth teching over BW if you aren't Persia or Egypt? Is archery worth teching over BW? And Massonry or seafaring? It does not seem to me, I basically I want to know if I'm wrong thinking that or not; and if I read your posts, it does not seem so; but if anyone has anything to say about it, please do

greetings from France then
IMHO you need BW before pottery. You want to see where the copper for your first or second settler.
+ a granary can be whipped too

Merci cabert ; actually I had last week a game with victoria and flood plains (+river then), so going granary + cottages over copper was my first move to begin teching like mad (did not play financial for a while, so one of my first impression was "wow, why do I tech so fast?"); but would it seem that all the french players think the same way? Or is two persons a little too small to generalize?

 

[InvisibleStalke]

A granary doesn't help much in the early game - your cities grow to the maximum size quickly enough anyway. I like early BW to get my second city out quickly. Maybe one worker tech before BW, or polytheism if I want an early religion, but otherwise straight to bronze.

 

[Jorunkun]

I'm trying to find the cases where I want things before BW (...) Is roads/AH worth teching over BW if you aren't Persia or Egypt? Is archery worth teching over BW? And Massonry or seafaring?

Frankly, I can't think of any situation where you benefit from delaying BW in favor of other techs except for the ones mentioned. I've had games where I prioritised roads/AH for chariots/UU but even for Persia and Egypt I wouldn't say it's the stronger play.

IMHO, Archery is only worth researching when you are dealing with raging barbs or playing a high-level game with both lots of turns and empty land in the expansion phase. And you'll still want BW asap.

As for prioritising Sailing or Masonry: If you want to explore on water, fishing/workboats are sufficient; I see no use for early sailing because you have to first build the settler to go in the ship, and that takes enough time that you can slot in sailing later. And Masonry by itself doesn't do much, does it?

 

[cabert]

Frankly, I can't think of any situation where you benefit from delaying BW in favor of other techs except for the ones mentioned. I've had games where I prioritised roads/AH for chariots/UU but even for Persia and Egypt I wouldn't say it's the stronger play.

IMHO, Archery is only worth researching when you are dealing with raging barbs or playing a high-level game with both lots of turns and empty land in the expansion phase. And you'll still want BW asap.

As for prioritising Sailing or Masonry: If you want to explore on water, fishing/workboats are sufficient; I see no use for early sailing because you have to first build the settler to go in the ship, and that takes enough time that you can slot in sailing later. And Masonry by itself doesn't do much, does it?

although i agree on most of the post, I think that in specific circumstances (like raging barbs and stone in the fat cross), rushing to masonry can be worthwhile

 

[utberguy]

This is my first strategic question in cfc after lot's of reading. Thanks by advance for any answer



- Archery: Early defensive unit;
Same as chariots: why this over BW?


questions?

I thought archery is quite useless if you have copper nearby. I'd just build a stack of axe man and once i have construction it is on the offense!

 

[DaveMcW]

- Archery: Early defensive unit;
Same as chariots: why this over BW?

Archers are better city defenders than axemen. If you have an axeman fortified in a city, you could have saved hammers by building an archer instead.

 

[futurehermit]

BW, AH, and Ag

Bronze working: Allows chopping, pop-rushing, and reveals bronze

Animal husbandry: Improves herdables giving you more food to feed pop-rushing and reveals horses

Ag: Improves farmables giving you more food to feed pop-rushing

Some people get pottery before alphabet, some wait and trade for it after. Either way, once you get it, you need to get granaries built to enhance pop-rushing. You can add cottages as well, if that's your gameplan.

In the early game, it's all about pop-rushing, trying to get your empire set up as much as possible. You gotta grab land, which means either settlers or military units. Sometimes both. Once you have enough land that your economy is hurting, then you have to start thinking about cottages or specialists and that kind of thing.

See my sig for a mantra you can sing over and over again. The "large cities" part is mainly for running a cottage economy and indicates the need to get happiness so you can grow your cities larger. Hereditary Rule (Monarchy) is really key for this early on and, as a result, an oracle slingshot for monarchy is quite popular.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

although i agree on most of the post, I think that in specific circumstances (like raging bards....

Pillage pillage pillage the cottages

 

[manu-fan]

Pillage pillage pillage the cottages

That comic is TOO funny. And quite addicting

Cheers.

 

[Dairuka]

Chariots are better early city defenders, because they make short work of Warrior, Archer and Axemen barbarians. Besides, who has ever seen the AI send a spearman to attack a city prior to 200 A.D.?

This is why I cross my fingers and hope I have a horse resource nearby.