pre-release info First Look: Confucius - Discussion

[ehecatzin]

I'm visualizing the centralized and decentralized, more about "province size".

And I'm thinking Confucious will be very good to mix and match with other civs, just to mega push that city growth. I'm curious about Confucius Mayans.

 

[Zoeff]

I'm out of town so didn't catch the FL, but do I read that correct my? 25% Growth with NO downsides? NO conditions whatsoever that need to be fulfilled prior?

Okay sure, I'll take it but man, what an inspired leader bonus.

It did specify "Cities" so presumably it'll require you to actually upgrade your towns to cities first which will be a bit of a bottleneck.

 

[Krikkit1]

Centralised would imply only 1 city though surely? Though I get where you're coming from.

Exactly... the
Ultimate "Central" strategy is One city, and many towns
Ultimate "Multiple" strategy is many cities, and a few towns to support them....

I think the names are probably best as
Towns (you get lots of towns to feed your Capital)
or
Cities (plural since you will have more than one city... at least after mid Antiquity)

 

[GeneralZift]

I know what we need to do guys.
Wide, tall, short, thin.

Much surface area: wide
Little surface area: thin

Much population: tall
Little population: short

Simple

 

[Nikolai II]

I know what we need to do guys.
Wide, tall, short, thin.

Much surface area: wide
Little surface area: thin

Much population: tall
Little population: short

Simple

What if thin in one direction and long and fat in another, having expanded mainly in one direction?

 

[paisvalencia]

Centralised would imply only 1 city though surely? Though I get where you're coming from.

Not necessarily, in the end it's a spectrum, just like playing tall doesn't mean just having one city.

I'd say in this spectrum the most centralized strategy would mean having one huge city being nourished by many towns (as in France, for instance, where Paris is basically THE city), while the most decentralized approach would mean several cities, all more or less important, with few towns (as in Spain, for example, where Madrid stands out as the capital but you've also got other globally relevant cities such as Barcelona, or in the US, where you've got large cities all around like NYC, LA, Chicago...).

It makes sense in the way that it's referring to how much your resources and attention are concentrated, either on one/few cities or spread out over many, just like countries decide on irl

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Remember how some of us pined for an end to the tall vs. wide dichotomy, finding it too strategically simple and too hard to balance?

I won't say the problem is solved, but if we're having this much discussion for terminology alone and already realizing that Towns and Cities broaden the former divide into a more complex spectrum... I think that's a good sign

No complaints here from a lover of the Civ VI City Lights mod which pioneered this rural vs. urban gameplay split.

(and now that I think about it...why don't we just call empires with Towns rural empires and ones with Cities urban empires??? You could have an urban tall empire, an urban wide empire, a rural tall empire, etc.)

 

[moysturfurmer]

Okay hear me out, what if instead of coming up with individual names we just use the coordinates on a 3 dimension point cloud to represent the city/town/tall/wide/specialist/quarter matter. So number of settlements is X axis, cities vs towns is Y axis, and tiles vs specialists is Z axis.

So an empire with lots of settlements that are predominantly cities crowded with specialists would be [80, 60, -90], but a n empire with a few settlements that are mostly towns but quite big and rural would be [-40, -75, 80]. We could use different typeface weights to further clarify the city, so if bold means the specialists/towns are mostly culture/science related, and italics is production/commerce, then [-50, -75, 80] then that would mean the empire has half the settlements it can, and three quarters of the settlements are production/commerce focused but the tiles it has are predominantly culture/science related. Seems like the easiest solution you’re welcome all

 

[Guandao]

I still feel like Confucius is kind of a bland leader choice for China. He's one of two Chinese Historical figures a lot of Westerners have heard about (the other being Mao Zedong). I hope it wasn't because actual Chinese emperors are off limits now for the Chinese Government censors to portray in video games. Zheng He would be another interesting choice for a non-political leader for China.

 

[Zaarin]

I still feel like Confucius is kind of a bland leader choice for China. He's one of two Chinese Historical figures a lot of Westerners have heard about (the other being Mao Zedong). I hope it wasn't because actual Chinese emperors are off limits now for the Chinese Government censors to portray in video games. Zheng He would be another interesting choice for a non-political leader for China.

I doubt that; we just had five emperors in Civ6.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I doubt that; we just had five emperors in Civ6.

China is one of those Civs that shows the dramatic imbalance in available Leaders.

We could have the old 8 - 9 Ages in the game and have a different Chinese Leader for each Age and still have names left over.

And do the same for England/Britain, France, Rome, Greece - but not even come close for Aksum or Carthage or other similar 'One Age' states.

 

[Guandao]

I don't want to complain too much about Confucius' appearance, but wasn't he from a Northern Chinese state, Shandong? His skin tone in the game looks more Southern Chinese or even Southeast Asian. Even darker than my skin-tone and I'm of Southern Chinese descent.

Firaxis hasn't always been accurate with skintones (see Tamar, and Hammurabi in Civ6), but I won't comment further on this.

 

[Guandao]

Do you think they will make a video for Ben Franklin next? or Amina of Zazzau?

 

[Zaarin]

not even come close for Aksum or Carthage or other similar 'One Age' states.

I mean, to no one's surprise, I could find you 8-9 candidates for Phoenician/Carthaginian leaders, though obviously they'd all be from Antiquity.

I quite like Confucious as a joint leader for a 3-age China. Firstly having someone who's not a warlike emperor (or worse) is quite nice. Secondly he transcends each of the 3 civs as a unifying figure that sort-of belongs to all of them. It's quite elegant IMO.

I'd argue he's a poor choice for representing the Buddhist Qing--the Buddhists and Neo-Confucians were in conflict for much of China's history, even though Chinese Buddhism adopted many Confucian and Daoist traits. On the other hand, choosing a Buddhist would have been a poor choice for representing Confucian Han and Ming.

Do you think they will make a video for Ben Franklin next? or Amina of Zazzau?

My guess is Ashoka is next, and that we'll get a civ write-up on the Khmer.

 

[Taizong4Civ7]

I still feel like Confucius is kind of a bland leader choice for China. He's one of two Chinese Historical figures a lot of Westerners have heard about (the other being Mao Zedong). I hope it wasn't because actual Chinese emperors are off limits now for the Chinese Government censors to portray in video games. Zheng He would be another interesting choice for a non-political leader for China.

Honestly, the Ming Dynasty seems to be the Chinese era Westerners are most familiar with. Given the Yongle memes I can actually see either of the two showing up in a later DLC.

 

[Zaarin]

Honestly, the Ming Dynasty seems to be the Chinese era Westerners are most familiar with. Given the Yongle memes I can actually see either of the two showing up in a later DLC.

I would have said Tang: Mulan, Wu Zetian (technically Wu Zhou, but...), the architecture, the hanfu...Runner up for Qing because of wuxia like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. (Okay, technically technically probably the Three Kingdoms period is the most famous in the West.)

 

[Taizong4Civ7]

I would have said Tang: Mulan, Wu Zetian (technically Wu Zhou, but...), the architecture, the hanfu...Runner up for Qing because of wuxia like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. (Okay, technically technically probably the Three Kingdoms period is the most famous in the West.)

I was thinking more Ming vases, the Great Wall, the Forbidden City, and Zheng He what-ifs, but the Qing is definitely the runners-up regardless. Now on the other hand, the 3K leaders would actually sell like hotcakes...

 

[Zaarin]

And now I feel a strong need to rewatch Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Zhuge Nu in action. not really impressive because it doesn't represent the weapons action phase. but a range of 1 makes really sense because it has short range.
Note that China is fold of conscript uses.

^ And Han attacking Funan CS. Note that it should be first era Playable Civ. though the name 'Funan' is the name from Chinese Chronicles (扶南). Their actual name based on Sanskrit Script is Vyādhapūra (व्याधपूर). They're quite indic. but I can't recall adobe construction like this is traditional building style of Southeast Asia anywhere especially anywhere in Mekhong Subcontinent.

What's next? Si Thep (Seat of Dvaravati Empire / League) being CS/Minor faction?

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

All his dialog should start with "As I say," or "You can quote me -..."