Five Take On The World (Conquests, Deity)

I could just take another 10 turns and screw up this game completely? :)

Just kidding.

We still have a chance (and a decent one) if we can get Sipahis fairly soon. I curse my stupidity to take that deal and not thinking of the pile against the Vikings. But I never reload and the outcome of my replay is quite different, but ah well.

Are we going for own research or try to trade, that is the question. I don't think anyone will just give us stuff for cheap prices. We might think about planting a spy or two around...what do we have to lose?

Yeah right, this game...I forgot :)
 
gozpel: you are absolutely right never to reload, and I definitely prefer a bad situation played honestly than a good situation played questionably.

If we can get sipahi soon we'll just have to take on the world earlier than anticipated and use pointy stick for technologies. :)
 
It was quite some time since I played Ottomans. How are they against riflemen? I know they take out muskets easily, but I have killed lots of rifles with knights even, but that in assistance with lots of artillery stuff.

I don't see this game lost just yet, but we really need another roll of the dice and this time in our favor. No one can blame us to be too lucky so far :)
 
5 Take On The World, Inherited Turn 250AD

Knights moved so they won't be in Edrine's borders in the event of a culture flip. Trebuchet similarly sent to Istanbul. We need as much cash as possible, so Iznik swaps to bank.

Bursa doesn't need any more irrigation, so slave interrupted. Indeed, existing irrigation needs to be changed to mines at size 12.

Sheesh...I didn't know India and Russia were already industrial, and knew nationalism! (in 250AD :eek: ). Thank goodness for the ongoing wars, what would the tech pace be like without them?

We're allied against the Vikings for another 18 turns with Babylon, which is okay but not brilliant...ideally we want the Vikings to stay alive but at war with various civs, so we can pay on credit to civs they are fighting. We have various other deals, the biggest of which (Iroquois) will end soon. Another excellent advantage of all these wars is that many civs might be gassed by the time our sipahi roll around...

Russia and Babylon have spare saltpeter, so we should be okay when we come to need that. The gameplan therefore appears very straightforward. Get to military tradition, get some saltpeter, train lots of sipahi and unleash hell :).

IT: refuse MPP with India.

Istanbul bank ---------> colosseum

Turn 1, 260AD: sell wm around for change (did this every turn). On the off chance that the AIs continue to ignore it, I set a scientist on economics.

Turn 2, 270AD: zzz

IT: refuse MPP with Russia.

Edrine bank ----------> courthouse (so we can get 20spt).

Turn 3, 280AD: We're up to 66gpt with the Iroquois deal ending in another 3 turns. Let's hope the Vikings continue to survive a few turns longer...

IT: blast! Babylon and Vikings make peace. We're out of the alliance now but Babylon was our most likely 2fer partner.

Turn 4, 290AD: 71gpt now, still only doubtful for metallurgy from the gracious Iroquois.

IT: Greece demands 36g....I curse Alex heartily but give it to him, his time will come.

Turn 5, 300AD: I notice a couple of razed city-sites to the southeast. Neither of the sites available are particularly good so I can see no reason to go for them over Izmit. Besides, by the time we got a settler over they'd likely be taken anyway.

Turn 6, 310AD: finally we can trade!

We can make peace with the Vikings but they have only one city so instead...

Metallurgy + alliance against the Vikings from Iroquois for 104gpt!! Now you may ask why the alliance when the Iroquois are already at war with the Vikings? Well, it's a similar tactic to the one I used in AG1 with excellent success...as soon as the Vikings are eliminated (or they make peace) we get out of the payment with no rep hit :). It's devious but clever...the raw deal cost 99gpt, so, in effect, we're paying an extra 5gpt to tie into an alliance with the chance of the deal ending early...well worth it, since even if the deal were to end 1 turn early we make a profit! And if the Vikings can be eliminated within 5 turns (for example), we'll have saved 15 x 104gpt!!!

There is only one followup trade available and I take it...Navigation from Babylon for Metallurgy, wm + 179g.

We're one tech away from Sipahi...and note, Greece also lacks military tradition :).

IT: India and Babylon sign mpp.

Istanbul colosseum ----------> not sure. It does 27spt maxed out at size 12, which is great for sipahi but not much else. Set on longbow for now and changed to 21spt/4fpt, to allow the food box to fill for possible worker peel.

Russia starts Newton's.

Turn 7, 320AD: zzz

IT: Edrine courthouse (now at 20spt :goodjob: ) ---------> university

Turn 8, 330AD: Iroquois are now also industrial.

I decide to go ahead and buy saltpeter, to train higher quality troops...we have very little gold and training low quality units will simply be a burden on our economy... it costs 25gpt from Babylon. If we get military tradition soonish this will also help, as respurces cost more if there are more possible units to train. Istanbul changed to musket.

IT: out of the blue a berserker attacks Izmit from a galley :eek: Our knight is redlined but manages to hold it off. Phew.

Turn 9, 340AD: zzz

IT: woohoo!!!!

5vsworldIroVikepeace.jpg


That is even better than elimination. Our alliance ends and we get our cash back. Stupid Iroquois...I can't believe the Vikings could offer them anything to compensate for the 17 x 104gpt they lose from us. What a bonus for us though...

Istanbul musket ----------> musket
Izmit market ----------> harbour

Turn 10, 350AD: we now have options but I will leave the trades for the next player so the team can discuss first. We have 448g + 106gpt. Bursa (high commerce) has a bank complete next turn, which should be worth an additional 10-12gpt. There are also several deals that end in 4-8 turns which will free up more cash.

Vikings are down to one city and currently we are the only civ at war with them, so no-one else will accept gpt for techs. Essentially I think these are the main options:

a) Make peace with the Vikings, picking up printing press for navigation.

b) Maybe in conjunction with (a), coast along and build up our bank balance so we can buy military tradition outright later. We could maybe even train some horses for upgrade, and hold on buying military tradition until just after we have renewed saltpeter (18 turns left until renewal), when we might even have a significant amount left over for upgrades.

c) Drag civ(s) back into war against the Vikings (eg Iroquois would only cost 17gpt). We could then try to buy military tradition for gpt from the civ at war against the Vikings, though I don't think we've got quite enough cash just yet. The bonus would be already having saltpeter, so we could start training sipahi immediately. Note also that Greece still lacks military tradition, so there would be a potential 2fer, though once again I doubt we could fulfil it with our rep broken, and we don't wnat any perturn deals with Greece anyway...Unfortunately we couldn't repeat the earlier trick of having the alliance and the purchase in the same deal, since we need a civ to be at war with the Vikings before they will consider accepting gpt from us.

Those are some thoughts for the team to consider. What other options do we have?

I'll finish by repeating what gozpel said: we ain't out of this yet! We're close to sipahi and only a couple of AI know nationalism. Not only that, most have been fighting for 100 turns+ and should be weakened from that. there's life in this dog yet! :hammer:


The Save
 
gozpel
Nad...just played
Greebley...UP NOW
Aggie...ON DECK
Hotrod
 
A rabbit out of Nad's hat :) Exactly what we needed.

Sipahis and GA is so close, this will be fun.
 
lol: I'd completely forgotten about a GA!!! All throughout the turns I was thinking about our UU and completely forgot about the other massive bonus :D.

The big bonus in my turns was getting metallurgy more or less for free. Now we have that and saltpeter and a healthy economy :).

Let's also not forget that we are scientific and still have an outside chance of a slingshot.

Could be some fun turns ahead...
 
Originally posted by Nad
Let's also not forget that we are scientific and still have an outside chance of a slingshot.

That's why I did those shoddy trades, to get to modern age as soon as possible...although my mind was obviously clouded :rolleyes:

Greece built a few wonders, is there any city we would like to keep when the time comes? If so, we have to consider that in our future military plans. Or will it be run and raze?
 
That's why I did those shoddy trades, to get to modern age as soon as possible...although my mind was obviously clouded :rolleyes:

You meant Industrial Age? I see people do this too often..

Greece built a few wonders, is there any city we would like to keep when the time comes?

You are doing a 5CC..
 
Of course I meant IA, have to be on my toes with microbe around :)

And yes, what Aggie said about our 5 cities. Who knows, we might move our whole empire before this game is over. With a few leaders and stuff, anything can happen :)

My thought were, if we take on Greece and are successful and we consider to keep their wonder city (is it Athens or are the wonders spread out?), a leader can build our new palace there and we have to rearrange our four remaining cities around this new core.
But then, that's in the future and I'm only speculating...we have 3 decent cities as I see it now and probably only need to get two more good sites where we are.
 
Ok I got it. I am torn between getting a gpt deal to get Sapahi early and keeping the Vikings in the game for later trading.

I may turn out to wait until we finish other buildings we want right away so we can concentrate solely on military. This might also allow the enemy troops to head back home and thus make it less likely we lose the Vikings for trading purposes.
 
Aren't you worried that if you wait to get saphali's that they may be heading up against rifles and infantry shortly thereafter? I would want my UU, a very tough foe, to get maximum shelflife. If you're plan is to decimate Greece, btw good luck on that, you'll get your tech boost through extortion.

/back to my popcorn and lurking
 
Preturn: Switch Istanbul to a worker. It should still be able to make a Musket in 3 after doing this. I speed up the bank in Iznik. Rather than letting each city grow by itself I am going allow the size 12 cities to help.

IBT: Scandanavia and Greece ally vs India

360 AD: What was someone saying about luck?
We trade Alliance vs the vikings, 116 gpt, and 10 gold for Mil. Tradition. This is almost all our GPT (one left), and keeps our gold.

Spend 450 to upgrade 5 knights to Sapahi (I keep 94 gold so we have a buffer in case our 1 gpt goes down).

IBT: Every civ except Vikings are allied vs Greece. In fact Babylon is making progress vs them.

370 AD: We have a deal with Greece. Not sure I want to break it even though are rep is bad. Not sure we are ready anyway. We merged in workers into Iznik.

IBT: Greece and Babylons sign Peace. Drat! Babylon declares war on the Vikings.
Edrine: University->Musket

380 AD: I upgrade the last knight.

IBT:

390 AD: Waiting to build some Muskets to attack. Bank due in 3 turns with new mines and merged workers from 12 at start.

IBT:

400 AD: Just building up to attack

IBT:

410 AD:

IBT: Iroquois demands 22 gold, Babylon demands silks
Iznik completes bank.

420 AD: I buy Greeks territory map so we know where the roads are.

IBT:

430 AD: We have ivory. I trade it to india for world map. I declare war, but decide to wait to see what Greek will counter with.

IBT: Um.. Nothing??? Are they hurting that badly?

440 AD: Um ok - I attack Uskadar. Lose two Sapahi :( and Raze the city.

IBT: Delphi is hit by a LOT of units. It has a longbow and 1 hp knight left.

450 AD: Well I am a bit damaged from the previous attack but Delphi looked hopeful. It has built a vet rifle. The first Sapahi loses redlining the Rifle The greeks has 2 conscript rifles and the redlined rifle which the Sapahi handle without loss. The last Sapahi (with only 2 hp) goes after the redlined knight and wins. We resort to using a horse on the final longbow defender and the city is taken and razed! I also upgrade a horse.

Notes:
When Bursa finishes the Musket you will want to switch to a Sapahi. The fall of Delphi meant it can get to 25 shields and build Sapahi in 4. It is short this turn and better off finishing the Musket.

So: Istanbul is at 39 shields and building Sapahi in 3
Bursa has been MMed to 25 and best building Sapahi in 4
Iznik was MMed to 20 and is building a Musket in 3
Edrine has exactly 30 and is building a musket in 2.
Izmit has been pushed aside for the most part to get Iznik to 20 and so is building a harbor with 5 shields.

My thought was to continue to raze cities that impinge on our borders first: I would go after Thesselonica and Argos after our Sapahi heal (they are in bad shape after 2 attacks).

We have a deal opportunity with Babyon (or India) We can go for the Alliance vs the vikings for physics deal for Babylon (105 gpt, Territory Map, Alliance Viking), or for 24 gpt cheaper, just get physics straight from India (81 gpt, WM, 2 gold) . The other option is that we use the cash to upgrade. I would go for the deal with Babylon and if need be we can kill the vikings and get back our 200+ gpt.

Greeks are not healthy. There has been no counters and Iroquois seem to have a real presence in the area. We are going to win this war at least.

Since we have to win by conquests we may want to continue the war. If we get physics we may be able to get the last 2 techs for peace.

Things went extremely well this turn. Vikings siding with the Greeks and the world vs the Greeks were both gifts from the Civ gods.

Nad5CC_450AD.JPG


The Save
 
Way to go Greebley! :thumbsup: The attack has started and we are in our GA :).

I'm not sure how feasible keeping a Greek city will be. If we can eliminate the Greeks then it might be possible...actually, some of the wonders might be obsolete anyway.

I think it is only Izmit that we want to relocate...the other cities now have lots of infra, so there's no point in abandoning them now.

One thing though: I would much rather have 8.3.3 sipahi at 100 shields than 2.4.1 muskets at 60 shields (muskets are always a crap deal anyway), so I'd have Iznik training sipahi as well (if possible can we get it to 25spt at size 12?). Edrine alone can train muskets.

I'm sure there was something else that I wanted to say but I've forgotten what it is...it'll come back to me later.
 
I remembered what I wanted to say! It was just a reminder:

My definition of a 5CC is that AT NO POINT may we have more than 5 cities, therefore we CANNOT capture a city, sell off its improvements and then abandon it, nor can we accept extra cities in peace deals and such. Moreover, if we wish to keep an AI city, we must abandon one of our 5 BEFORE capturing the new city.

As we are now entering the phase where we will be attacking I just wanted to post that as a reminder for all players. Please try your best not to compromise this guideline.
 
The tide has turned :) Great job Greebley!

We won't need that many muskets, so build those Sipahis as fast as we can. They will steamroll through Feta-cheese and olives.

We might consider build our 5th real town N of Thessalonica to get a hold of that iron. Otehrwise I like the site of Argos, it fits well in our core.
 
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