Five Take On The World (Conquests, Deity)

[Aggie]

IHT: I move the knights out of Edrine.

IT: Torquois and Scandinavia sign peace. India starts Copernicus.

Turn 1 (130 BC) Our income jumps to 61 gpt, but Education is still out of the question. So no 2fer with the Iroquois, who have Gunpowder, but no Education.

Turn 2 (110 BC) The Iroquois ask an absurd price for Gunpodwer: silks and 60 gpt

IT: Istanbul: cathedral->horse. India finishes sistine.

Turn 3 (90 BC)

IT: Bursa: longbow->horse. Russia finishes Copernicus.Greece finishes Leo.

Turn 4 (70 BC)

IT: Istanbul: horse->horse. Iznik: temple->harbor. India finishes Magellan.

Turn 5 (50 BC) The 2fer is gone, but maybe the Vikings will help us. They lack both Gunpowder and Education.

Turn 6 (30 BC) Our income shoots to 99 gpt. And the Vikings have Gunpowder
I buy Education from the Iroquois for 53 gpt and silks. I buy Gunpowder from the Vikings for Ivory, 13 gpt and Education.

The Vikings and Babylon are level in tech, the Iroquois have Banking over us. Greece, India and Russia at least also have Astronomy and Chemistry.

Everything but the ktichen sink gives us almost a deal for Banking. Maybe we should make a painful deal, since Banking is extremely important...

IT: Greece and India sign a MA vs India. Istanbul: horse->horse.

Turn 7 (10 BC)

Turn 8 (10 AD) Our Printing Press gambit failed. The Iroquois have it and got themselves back into the tech race. The Vikings do have banking. Babylon not.

We can get Banking for 28 gpt 600 gold and horses... our last horses...

IT: Istanbul, Bursa: horse->university (prebuilds for banks).

Turn 9, 10 (30, 50 AD)

I certainly see options. We are not far behind the most backward AI. In fact: future 2fers are very possible. And Banking should help a lot. Let's be aware that our GA still has to come and a GA with Sipahi can be

50 AD save

 

[Nad]

Very nicely played .

Gozpel...UP NOW
Nad...ON DECK

 

[gozpel]

I like those trades! In another game I traded our only luxes and resources like crazy + mortgaged the whole economy to keep in touch.Read about it in this thread

So giving away horses for 20 turns is indeed a good way of trading, Aggie.

We are getting closer and closer to our GA as Aggie said and that is our only hope to make something out of this game.

Let's hope we can stay close enough to get something of our next free tech. Greece is a run-away train it seems and we and the other AI's are their pawns

I got it.

 

[Aggie]

I haven't traded our horses yet. But can can do it and I suggest doing so indeed. I waited because I was close to the end of my turns already (and I wanted to discuss it )

 

[Nad]

Now would be the perfect time to trade horses away, as when we get them back in 20 turns it'll be time for... sipahi

I take it we have no gunpowder? In which case, when we get our horses back, we don't sell them again but instead spend 10 turns just training horses while saving all our cash...then buy/trade luxes for some saltpeter (I hope someone has a spare source!) and upgrade our horses/knights, and go for some we really want to get our sipahi's into action before rifles...even against rifles they're great, but against muskets it's pure slaughter...

 

[Aggie]

I totally forgot to check if we have saltpeter

EDIT: only Babylon, Russia and Iroquois have a source connected. Greece has no source in the lands that WE can see. Obviously we have no source.

 

[gozpel]

I misunderstood it then, I'm tired after a few busy days.

I will look into it and see what happens.

At least I have time to play again and unwind. Funny game to unwind to though, lol.

 

[gozpel]

The Save

Pre-turn - Istanbul needs only 1 food to grow next turn, but is producing 5, change that and uni is due in 4t.
Change Bursa to worker in 1t. I asked to have them forests chopped after my turns before, it looks like I have to do it myself.
Worker roading Bursa forest changed to chop.
Move the 2 useless warriors out of Iznik to be disbandoned, and move horses for MP there instead.
Switch Iznik from harbor to market.
Switch Izmit from barracks to market.

70AD - IT - Iroqouis joins Russia on the crusade against the Vikings.

Bursa worker -> uni. The people are happy with that move and add a lawn in front of our palace.

Disband warrior in Izmit.
Disband warrior in Bursa.

90AD - Russia would sell Astronomy for all our gold and gpt plus the 2 luxes, too rich.

110AD - Edrine cathedral -> uni.

130AD - Istanbul uni -> wealth. We have 34 gpt and 779g.

Buy Chemistry from Russia for 29 gpt, 774g and both our remaining luxes.
Chemistry and horses to Vikings for Banking and 81g.

Viking are down to 3 cities btw.

2 clowns hired in Bursa and a taxman in Izmit. We have 86g and -10gpt. This can be fixed tho, just working forests for a turn or two.
Switch to banks in 3 cities.

150AD - Iroquois and Russia sign alliance against Greece!

Haha, Vikings wants us to join them against Greece. Don't think so.

170AD - India joins Iroquois against Greece as well.

The silk - gems deal with India expires, I renew it and get 113g for the trouble.

190AD - Babylon joins the war against Greece.

210AD - Suddenly our gpt jumps to +8, Vikings are down to one city and someone took their harbor town and our reputation is tainted. Trading will be even harder now, mates.

But we got the gold back at least and ivory and horses as well, and I give ivory to Greece for silks and 7 gpt. Alex is polite.

Since our reputation is shot, I ask Babylon if they want an ally against Vikings, they agree and give us Astronomy for Chemistry and 81g.

The silk-deal allows me to fire a clown and a taxman and with micromanagement we have 22 gpt plus 101g.

We are 4 techs from modern age and we don't even know the worldmap.

230AD - We get another palace expansion.

Join a worker into Edrine, pop 12 now.

250AD - Iznik market -> barracks.

We will have a couple of banks the next few turns.
We have 151g and make 33 gpt atm.

A couple of civs are in modern age.

We get 53 gpt back when the Iroquois trade expires in 6 turns, hopefully we can get another twofer then. But I doubt it, as our rep is damned. That's the worst frigging thing in Civilization, someone pillage a road or take a town on the other side of the world and the player get the hit.

Right now only Iroquois and Babs seem to accept gpt deals. The others would never accept it. Sorry, shouldn't have done the trade with Vikings.

 

[Nad]

Well, that has just racked up the difficulty rating to "near impossible"

Making deals which involve goods with a dying civ is just plain asking for trouble. If they only had 3 cities left and were at war with other civs we should not have made a deal with them that involved goods...gpt is fine, in fact it's more than fine, it's clever, because as soon as they are killed we get the cash back and no rep hit, but because the deal involved goods our rep is now completely and irrevocably destroyed. The only reason Iroquois and Babs will accept gpt for the moment is because they are at war with the Vikings and "like" the fact we betrayed them. as soon as the Vikings are destoyed or they make peace, that's it, we are out of the tech brokering loop.

In a way that has made our decision-making for this game easier. We now have no choice...since we can no longer broker we have to go to war asap, and we are quite close to Sipahi. We will not be able to keep up in tech and have to go on the attack as soon as possible.

Overall I think you did well gozpel, there were just two things I disagreed with; the trade with the Vikings and the disbanding of the warriors (IMO you can never have enough - those warriors should have been piling into Edrine to help garrison against flips...every little helps). But what's done is done, spilt milk and all that. I will be looking to play tonight .

 

[Aggie]

One thing though: we have to trade to get...saltpeter.

EDIT: OK... It's about 200 gold. Two techs from Military Tradition make things difficult, but not hopeless.

 

[Nad]

Trading for saltpeter should be okay as it would be a pure per-turn deal. It's lump sum items we can no longer buy on terms.

 

[gozpel]

Yes, I can only agree. It was not the smartest move to get involved in a trade with the Vikings as I did, but when the other civs ran away I got a bit paranoid. Babs and Vikings were the only "backwards" civs at that time and I didn't consider the fact of the Vikings getting overrun by the pile.

Don't play early in the morning, before you had at least 2 strong cups of coffee!

I could've mortgaged our economy for Banking alone and as you say, it wouldn't hit our reputation. The darn horses did.

We got Banking and Astronomy for a heavy cost, but I still think it's better to have those techs, then sitting back and waiting for someone to attack us with tanks.


The warriors cost gpt and I wanted another worker and still make deals.

I don't agree on that one.


Well, everone is going at Greece, that can be our saving moment.
I didn't check, but can we research anything ourselves?

 

[Greebley]

Did we get chemistry, astronomy, or both? Yor actual deal says chemistry, but you mention astronomy twice.

It is going to take us time to both get to Mil Trad and generate enough cash to upgrade to Sapahi. The horse to Cav cost is 150 gold. Do Sapahi cost more shields than standard Cavalry? I haven't played them in a while.

Hopefully, the banks will help us here.

 

[Nad]

Sipahi cost 100 shields, the upgrade cost is 210 each for pure horses

 

[Greebley]

Looking at the Save...

Our military is really pathetic.

I know our trade rep is gone; I am trying to remember if ROP rep and ability to sign alliances is seperate? In other words are we going to lose our ability to get other civs to ally vs the Greeks if the Vikings are destroyed in the next 18 turns of our alliance?

I would move the knights outside of Edrine to two squares south of the city. That way if the town flips we are not within Greek borders when we declare (does this still matter? I am thinking it does as we can still sign ROPs if we don't throw in per turn stuff.

We have 6 knights and 4 horse and 2 spear that we could upgrade when we get Saltpeter. The knights alone are 540, the horse 840, and the spear are not going to be worth it. We will probably not be ready for a number of turns after getting saltpeter.

On the plus side we get back 53 gpt in 6 turns. With that added to our gpt we can research ourselves in 19 turns. We may have no interest in self research, but it gives us something to compare against.

I think we can do gpt deals if we renegotiate peace. The only drawbacks is that we pay a surcharge since we are smaller, and by RBCiv rules, the pease deal must last all 20 turns. We can't purposefully break it without being exploitive. It might be worth consideration if we wanted a tech earlier, however

 

[Aggie]

Ehm...Who's up now?

 

[Greebley]

Isn't Nad up? That is what the order seems to indicate.

 

[Nad]

I am up but I've been a little busy this weekend, not much time to play Civ...will get to it asap.

 

[Nad]

Hi guys, I'm not gonna be able to play until tomorrow, so if Greebley wishes to swap you are welcome, though you don't have to.

 

[Greebley]

Go ahead and play when you can. I don't think I will be getting to it until Tues or more likely Wed and have no problem allowing you to take the time you need.