Aggie
Deity
You are right hotrod 
Five Take On The World (Conquests, Deity)
- Thread starter Nad
- Start date
Nad
Known Troublemaker
I agree with you guys, I did feel a bit guilty at manipulating the Russians. But I think the reason I did it was because I only had the one failure...each of the previous steals succeeded (even though I didn't want them to!). If I had failed once and the Russians had not declared war then I would not have tried again simply to force them to declare war...as it happened we failed once (at the end) and got a war declaration.
I think I see this as extremely dastardly rather than as an exploit. I don't see this as an exploit for three reasons:
1) It costs a significant sum of gold (over 1000g) each time you try a steal...so you are paying a hefty cost.
2) You might succeed
3) There is no guarantee of a war declaration if you fail...civ reactions tend to vary significantly. From my experience the most accurate indicator is a combination of power/attitude. More powerful civs/more angry civs seem more minclined to declare war over steals than weaker/friendlier civs. Still, there does appear to be a random element involved again.
I think I see this as extremely dastardly rather than as an exploit. I don't see this as an exploit for three reasons:
1) It costs a significant sum of gold (over 1000g) each time you try a steal...so you are paying a hefty cost.
2) You might succeed
3) There is no guarantee of a war declaration if you fail...civ reactions tend to vary significantly. From my experience the most accurate indicator is a combination of power/attitude. More powerful civs/more angry civs seem more minclined to declare war over steals than weaker/friendlier civs. Still, there does appear to be a random element involved again.
Nad
Known Troublemaker
@ Greebley: to answer your question, no, I would not start a Hoover prebuild right now. This is for two reasons. Firstly, the only two cities that can build Hoover are Edrine and Bursa. And secondly, Edrine already has a coal plant and makes double the shields of Bursa (74 at break even food, whereas, from memory, I think Bursa makes around 40). So Edrine can build Hoover from start to finish in 11 turns whereas Bursa would take closer to 20. Since there is only 7 turns left on Theory Of Evolution, it will be quicker for Edrine to finish that and then build Hoover than for Bursa to complete Hoover even with the prebuild. Note, however, that these figures are from memory and I'm at work so can't check the save...please do check these figures in case I'm off the mark!
Also, Bursa's major strength is gold, thanks to the river and the coastal tiles, so that is a city we want stock exchange + hospital in asap. Sanitation might not be worth stealing, since once it is sold around it becomes very cheap, so we might be able to buy it fairly soon (which we definitely want) so we can get our cities to size 20 quickly.
Also, Bursa's major strength is gold, thanks to the river and the coastal tiles, so that is a city we want stock exchange + hospital in asap. Sanitation might not be worth stealing, since once it is sold around it becomes very cheap, so we might be able to buy it fairly soon (which we definitely want) so we can get our cities to size 20 quickly.
Good point Nad. I will double check the math, but I suspect you are correct. In order for me to start a prebuild (especially in a town lacking improvements) I would want it to get us hoover several turns earlier by doing so.
I will start playing now.
I will start playing now.
Preturn: I see what Nad means. Our capitol cannot build Hoover as it has no water. The capitol could build Hoover fast enough to be worthwhile(finish 4 turns after TOE). Bursa cannot.
IBT: To add injury to insult our coal moves so that it will fall within the 20 squares of the same Iroquois city that was trying to nab the iron.
Hmm... Whatever we do Do not switch our new city away from Iron works for any reason!!. The city no longer has coal and so cannot switch back to it.
860 AD: I merge in two standard workers and readjust squares to lower the time to iron works to 12 turns from 38 last turn
IBT: Universal sufferage is completed by Babylon. Bombay completes Smith. Both Babylons and the Iroquois were building smith as well and may cascade.
870 AD: Not much going on.
IBT: Iroquois switch to TOE. Babylon does not.
Istanbul: Stock Exchange->Worker
I am going to peel off workers as our last town is only size 8 and we can get Sanitation soon.
880 AD: I upgrade some Infantry while we still have Rubber.D
IBT:
Istanbul: Worker->Artillery
Bursa: Stock Exchange->Worker
890 AD: I consider investigating Oil Springs as this is the last turn to switch to Intell agency without loss. However it is at most 2 turns lost, I don't think I will spend the cash. The town looks dweeby, so I am hoping...
IBT: Palace expansion.
Bursa: Worker->Granary (for when we get Sanitation)
900 AD: One more turn and we clinch TOE (Built in 2). Can we do it?
Musket and Rifle upgrade complete.
IBT: Whoops. We lose a worker. I guess that is a Russian infantry. I missed that fact.
Istanbul: Artillery->Intelligence Agency (to increase steal chances).
910 AD: We get a leader chance in exchange but no dice.
TOE is ours nex turn. I am hoping noone minds if I throw away our work on iron clads and go for atomic theory instead
Oh thats Nice. That iroquois town on our border is now Greek. Any work on cultural buildings has been lost. This is good for us because an expansion will deprive us of Coal.
IBT: TOE Completes! We get Atomic theory and Electronics.
Edrine: TOE->Hoover
Bursa: Granary->Artillery.
Hoover is a lot less important to get in a 5CC, but is still useful and very nice to keep out of enemy hands. I considered Refining and Steel, but my feeling from previous games is they are worth a lot less in terms of trade. So Electronics and Hoover it is. (Also I would want to stop and discuss that radical a change from what was discussed).
920 AD: Looks like it was a decent choice - refining is already known. I can trade atomic theory to a single AI for both Refining and Sanitation so I don't think they are researching it. The only one I am not sure on is the Iroquois who have no tech to exchange.
Going to get Hoover in 12 instead of 11 so that we do not starve ourselves.
We can make peace with Russia, but it would cost us.
IBT: Nuttin.
930 AD: Everything seems the same on the tech front.
IBT:
Bursa: Artillery->Infantry
940 AD: Babylons will no longer give us refining for Atomic theory. He is resarching it. Since India will give us a very decent price I am going to drade with them.
Atomic Theory for Refining, Sanitation, 73 gpt, and 1573 gold.
Babylon has dyes to trade for Atomic Theory . If we let him waste a few turns researching some more we can then get the dyes before he completes the research.
We can get Radio in 31 turns at max research rate. I wonder if we could beat the AI to it? I will do this for 1 turn but we should discuss. It may be a expensive pipe dream. Getting an exclusive on such a nice tech would net a LOT of cash, but 31 turns is probably too long.
IBT: The iroquois take that town back from Greece again.
Iznik: Granary->Hospital
950 AD: I switch Bursa to a hospital as well.
Notes:
Next player can decide if the Radio gambit is ludicrus or not. It could net us a lot of gpt if it worked. Do we care? Maybe we just want to steal and or will be at war with everyone. Maybe the chances are too low of getting their first. What do you all think? We can easily switch away if we don't want it. We have only a small investment.
We can make peace with Russia. The best deal was Peace + world map which gets us world map and 9 gold (otherwise peace is 40 gold without our map). We probably want to make peace.
We are building 2 hosptitals; Hoover in 9 turns; Intelligence Agency in 4 turns; Iron Works in 3 turns.
I think the next player will be finishing up builds and building hospitals.
Iznik needs a Harbor pretty badly, our newest town needs a market.
Hopefully the next player can get this before the forums go down:
The Save
IBT: To add injury to insult our coal moves so that it will fall within the 20 squares of the same Iroquois city that was trying to nab the iron.
Hmm... Whatever we do Do not switch our new city away from Iron works for any reason!!. The city no longer has coal and so cannot switch back to it.
860 AD: I merge in two standard workers and readjust squares to lower the time to iron works to 12 turns from 38 last turn
IBT: Universal sufferage is completed by Babylon. Bombay completes Smith. Both Babylons and the Iroquois were building smith as well and may cascade.
870 AD: Not much going on.
IBT: Iroquois switch to TOE. Babylon does not.
Istanbul: Stock Exchange->Worker
I am going to peel off workers as our last town is only size 8 and we can get Sanitation soon.
880 AD: I upgrade some Infantry while we still have Rubber.D
IBT:
Istanbul: Worker->Artillery
Bursa: Stock Exchange->Worker
890 AD: I consider investigating Oil Springs as this is the last turn to switch to Intell agency without loss. However it is at most 2 turns lost, I don't think I will spend the cash. The town looks dweeby, so I am hoping...
IBT: Palace expansion.
Bursa: Worker->Granary (for when we get Sanitation)
900 AD: One more turn and we clinch TOE (Built in 2). Can we do it?
Musket and Rifle upgrade complete.
IBT: Whoops. We lose a worker. I guess that is a Russian infantry. I missed that fact.
Istanbul: Artillery->Intelligence Agency (to increase steal chances).
910 AD: We get a leader chance in exchange but no dice.
TOE is ours nex turn. I am hoping noone minds if I throw away our work on iron clads and go for atomic theory instead
Oh thats Nice. That iroquois town on our border is now Greek. Any work on cultural buildings has been lost. This is good for us because an expansion will deprive us of Coal.
IBT: TOE Completes! We get Atomic theory and Electronics.
Edrine: TOE->Hoover
Bursa: Granary->Artillery.
Hoover is a lot less important to get in a 5CC, but is still useful and very nice to keep out of enemy hands. I considered Refining and Steel, but my feeling from previous games is they are worth a lot less in terms of trade. So Electronics and Hoover it is. (Also I would want to stop and discuss that radical a change from what was discussed).
920 AD: Looks like it was a decent choice - refining is already known. I can trade atomic theory to a single AI for both Refining and Sanitation so I don't think they are researching it. The only one I am not sure on is the Iroquois who have no tech to exchange.
Going to get Hoover in 12 instead of 11 so that we do not starve ourselves.
We can make peace with Russia, but it would cost us.
IBT: Nuttin.
930 AD: Everything seems the same on the tech front.
IBT:
Bursa: Artillery->Infantry
940 AD: Babylons will no longer give us refining for Atomic theory. He is resarching it. Since India will give us a very decent price I am going to drade with them.
Atomic Theory for Refining, Sanitation, 73 gpt, and 1573 gold.
Babylon has dyes to trade for Atomic Theory . If we let him waste a few turns researching some more we can then get the dyes before he completes the research.
We can get Radio in 31 turns at max research rate. I wonder if we could beat the AI to it? I will do this for 1 turn but we should discuss. It may be a expensive pipe dream. Getting an exclusive on such a nice tech would net a LOT of cash, but 31 turns is probably too long.
IBT: The iroquois take that town back from Greece again.
Iznik: Granary->Hospital
950 AD: I switch Bursa to a hospital as well.
Notes:
Next player can decide if the Radio gambit is ludicrus or not. It could net us a lot of gpt if it worked. Do we care? Maybe we just want to steal and or will be at war with everyone. Maybe the chances are too low of getting their first. What do you all think? We can easily switch away if we don't want it. We have only a small investment.
We can make peace with Russia. The best deal was Peace + world map which gets us world map and 9 gold (otherwise peace is 40 gold without our map). We probably want to make peace.
We are building 2 hosptitals; Hoover in 9 turns; Intelligence Agency in 4 turns; Iron Works in 3 turns.
I think the next player will be finishing up builds and building hospitals.
Iznik needs a Harbor pretty badly, our newest town needs a market.
Hopefully the next player can get this before the forums go down:
The Save
Aggie
Deity
Well, the next player is me, so that makes it a sure thing
Uneventful? We have ToE [dance]
hotrod0823
Deity
I like the radio play. It is 2 techs away for the AI correct? We still have a monopoly on Electronics for at least a few more turns to deny Hoover and wait for steel or corporation to come up and radio is not a priority.
I say go for it ! We need to really get a nice stack of artillery and tanks to start taking names
I say go for it ! We need to really get a nice stack of artillery and tanks to start taking names
Aggie
Deity
I started playing and hope to finish before the forum goes down.
Aggie
Deity
IHT: I wake an elite Sipahi and attack the Russian city of Chita. The reg infantry is killed and we raze the city. Another elite Sipahi kills a wandering vet infantry. Again no leader 
IT: A couple of deals with Babylon end.
Turn 1 (960 AD) Babylon gives us Rubber, Saltpeter, Spices and dyes for Silks, world Map and 208 gold.
Russia gives us WM, worker and 6 gold for peace.
IT: The ROP's with India and Babylon end.
Turn 2 (970 AD) Nothing much.
IT: Greece and Babylon sign peace. Bursa: hospital->artillery. Antalya starts market after building::
Turn 3 (980 AD)
IT: Istanbul builds the Intelligence agency->hospital.
Turn 4 (990 AD) India will soon have two sources of oil... Only one is connected. We don't have one naturally. Greece also potentially has two sources (on islands). No nations has techs atm...
IT: Bursa: artillery-artillery. Antalya: market->factory.
Turn 5 (1000 AD)
IT: Iznik: Hospital->harbor.
Turn 6 (1010 AD) The prices for Electronics are simply outrageous!!
IT: India and Greece signed Peace. Bursa: artillery->artillery.
Turn 7 (1020 AD)
IT: Istanbul: hospital->police station. Iznik: harbor->university.
Turn 8 (1030 AD)
IT: We build the Hoover Dam in Edrine [dance] ->hospital. Bursa: artillery->infantry.
Turn 9 (1040 AD)
IT: The Greek-Russian ebargo vs us ends. Babylon and Russia sign peace. Antalya: factory->university.
Turn 10 (1050 AD) Still nothing new from the AI...
Workers are in foreign lands to return to Antalya. For the rest it is just waiting until we have tanks...
1050 AD save
IT: A couple of deals with Babylon end.
Turn 1 (960 AD) Babylon gives us Rubber, Saltpeter, Spices and dyes for Silks, world Map and 208 gold.
Russia gives us WM, worker and 6 gold for peace.
IT: The ROP's with India and Babylon end.
Turn 2 (970 AD) Nothing much.
IT: Greece and Babylon sign peace. Bursa: hospital->artillery. Antalya starts market after building::
Turn 3 (980 AD)
IT: Istanbul builds the Intelligence agency->hospital.
Turn 4 (990 AD) India will soon have two sources of oil... Only one is connected. We don't have one naturally. Greece also potentially has two sources (on islands). No nations has techs atm...
IT: Bursa: artillery-artillery. Antalya: market->factory.
Turn 5 (1000 AD)
IT: Iznik: Hospital->harbor.
Turn 6 (1010 AD) The prices for Electronics are simply outrageous!!
IT: India and Greece signed Peace. Bursa: artillery->artillery.
Turn 7 (1020 AD)
IT: Istanbul: hospital->police station. Iznik: harbor->university.
Turn 8 (1030 AD)
IT: We build the Hoover Dam in Edrine [dance] ->hospital. Bursa: artillery->infantry.
Turn 9 (1040 AD)
IT: The Greek-Russian ebargo vs us ends. Babylon and Russia sign peace. Antalya: factory->university.
Turn 10 (1050 AD) Still nothing new from the AI...
Workers are in foreign lands to return to Antalya. For the rest it is just waiting until we have tanks...
1050 AD save
Nice progress Aggie. Antalya looks like it will be a decent town with the iron works and should be able to catch up pretty quickly.
I liked the razing of the Russian city. I hadn't noticed that option. It certainly improved the peace deal
Is it worth temporarily irrigating to get our towns to size 20 quickly?
I liked the razing of the Russian city. I hadn't noticed that option. It certainly improved the peace deal
Is it worth temporarily irrigating to get our towns to size 20 quickly?
Nad
Known Troublemaker
Well played Aggie .
I can't wait for the wars to begin in earnest.
Hotrod...UP NOW
gozpel...ON DECK
I understand the fora may be down this weekend? I'm in no rush for saves to be played and passed around, so Hotrod, by all means take your time and wait for the upgrade to complete before posting your turn.
.I can't wait for the wars to begin in earnest.
Hotrod...UP NOW
gozpel...ON DECK
I understand the fora may be down this weekend? I'm in no rush for saves to be played and passed around, so Hotrod, by all means take your time and wait for the upgrade to complete before posting your turn.
hotrod0823
Deity
I've got it but may not get it back until Sunday anyway. Thanks for the extra time.
We are head to NYC to see cirque de Solei (my spelling is awful)
And yes I think we should quickly irrigate to push our population up as fast as we can. Typically we would have enough "slaves" without homes but in our case now I would be very weary of melding any slaves of civs that are still around. Soo.. that leaves irrigation.
Hotrod
We are head to NYC to see cirque de Solei (my spelling is awful)
And yes I think we should quickly irrigate to push our population up as fast as we can. Typically we would have enough "slaves" without homes but in our case now I would be very weary of melding any slaves of civs that are still around. Soo.. that leaves irrigation.
Hotrod
knacki
Chieftain
hotrod0823 said:
Sorry to delurk, just to say that your spelling is not so awful, it's " le cirque du soleil ", so u see, one letter missing (or maybe just a kb problem ? )
hotrod0823
Deity
I will have the turns up tonight. Half way through and it does take a long time to fire all those artillery doesn't it
Hotrod
Hotrod
hotrod0823
Deity
1050 AD (0): Okay the time has come has it not. I wake all our troops and asses the situation. The Greeks can be taken off our land mass easily but getting the island will take too much time. The iroquios need to be dealt with now. Soo...pay 85 gold to Hammi for a ROP. Wake our stack of artillery and siphia and move towards the Iroquios core and the 2 outlaying towns. We have no deals so I declare war on the Iroquois. Ganogeh is destroyed. Gandasetaigon is easily destroyed. Change Antalya to a police station, short rush a hospital in Edrine. All gearing up for a military build. Lets get the infrastructure built to start moblization.
1060 AD (1): Well that was unexpected. Irquois move 2 large stacks towards us leaving our stack of units in his territory alone. I kill off 8 cavs and leave the infantry stack alone but begin moving back artillery for an attack next turn. Short rush the Antalya police station.
1070 AD (2): It took a few casualties but managed to take out a large stack of infantry with artillery, sipahi and a couple infantry and the finishing blow to the last infantry by a warrior.
1080 AD (3): Electronics has been brokered. Music theory is available. Kill of another big stack of infantry. Are they spent already? Building a mix of artillery and sipahi. Both Endrina and Istanbul lend themselves nicely to worker/artillery short rushes.
1090 aD (4): They keep coming to the kill zone. Add 5 more units to our military start 5 more. Mobilize for the time being to improve our military production. Neat, worker rush for 80 then a moboilized improver Edrine will have a sipahi every turn. Istanbul a sipahi without rushing.
should've built Izniks police station before mobilization. Like wise Antayla's hospital. 
Well artillery don't get the mobilization bonus. Took out the advancing cavs but will leave the infantry until the artillery can do more damage.
1100 AD (5): More purple deaths! Redline and kill many infantry. Build sipahi start mostly artillery.
1110 AD (6): kill 8 more infantry with 6 elite victories and no leader. Will begin moving units to hit some Iroquios towns. Opt for a round of Infantry to help secure our new stack. Will hit Chonadote next turn with our stack and our Sipahi.
1120 AD (7): It took its tole but Chonadote falls. Our stack is wounded and can't really press on. This may be futile. Chonadote was covered by at least 8 infantry and took a lot to bring it down.
1130 AD (8): WW is kicking in and up lux to 10%, Radio is due in 9 but we are losing -40gpt. I think discretion is the best move here and recall our forward troops to deal with more purple invaders and heal up.
1140 AD (9): Kill all intruders and setup a small force to bother Cattaraugus. will take few turns of heavy artillery fire before we can step in and raze the city. I learned the hard way before.
1150 AD (10): A few more elite wins and still no leader. Bomb Cattaraugus and wound 4 infantry. Not enough damage to move on the city. Artillery from Antalya can be moved up next turn provided the iroquios are quiet. More military builds ofcourse but we have to be careful of WW. Radio is due in 13 turns but has been fluxuating a bit due to lux tax and insurgent iroquois.
Here is the save:
1060 AD (1): Well that was unexpected. Irquois move 2 large stacks towards us leaving our stack of units in his territory alone. I kill off 8 cavs and leave the infantry stack alone but begin moving back artillery for an attack next turn. Short rush the Antalya police station.
1070 AD (2): It took a few casualties but managed to take out a large stack of infantry with artillery, sipahi and a couple infantry and the finishing blow to the last infantry by a warrior.
1080 AD (3): Electronics has been brokered. Music theory is available. Kill of another big stack of infantry. Are they spent already? Building a mix of artillery and sipahi. Both Endrina and Istanbul lend themselves nicely to worker/artillery short rushes.
1090 aD (4): They keep coming to the kill zone. Add 5 more units to our military start 5 more. Mobilize for the time being to improve our military production. Neat, worker rush for 80 then a moboilized improver Edrine will have a sipahi every turn. Istanbul a sipahi without rushing.
should've built Izniks police station before mobilization. Like wise Antayla's hospital. Well artillery don't get the mobilization bonus. Took out the advancing cavs but will leave the infantry until the artillery can do more damage.1100 AD (5): More purple deaths! Redline and kill many infantry. Build sipahi start mostly artillery.
1110 AD (6): kill 8 more infantry with 6 elite victories and no leader. Will begin moving units to hit some Iroquios towns. Opt for a round of Infantry to help secure our new stack. Will hit Chonadote next turn with our stack and our Sipahi.
1120 AD (7): It took its tole but Chonadote falls. Our stack is wounded and can't really press on. This may be futile. Chonadote was covered by at least 8 infantry and took a lot to bring it down.
1130 AD (8): WW is kicking in and up lux to 10%, Radio is due in 9 but we are losing -40gpt. I think discretion is the best move here and recall our forward troops to deal with more purple invaders and heal up.
1140 AD (9): Kill all intruders and setup a small force to bother Cattaraugus. will take few turns of heavy artillery fire before we can step in and raze the city. I learned the hard way before.
1150 AD (10): A few more elite wins and still no leader. Bomb Cattaraugus and wound 4 infantry. Not enough damage to move on the city. Artillery from Antalya can be moved up next turn provided the iroquios are quiet. More military builds ofcourse but we have to be careful of WW. Radio is due in 13 turns but has been fluxuating a bit due to lux tax and insurgent iroquois.
Here is the save:
Aggie
Deity
Got bored of our building phase? Bold move But a bit unexpected...
Bold move But a bit unexpected...Nad
Known Troublemaker
The wars have begun
Any ideas about the general plan? I would think hurt the Iroquois, sign peace to demobilize, complete all buildings and then full-scale slaughter?
gozpel...UP NOW
Nad...ON DECK
Greebley
Aggie
Hotrod
Any ideas about the general plan? I would think hurt the Iroquois, sign peace to demobilize, complete all buildings and then full-scale slaughter?
gozpel...UP NOW
Nad...ON DECK
Greebley
Aggie
Hotrod
Aggie
Deity
I would raze Cattaraugus and maybe Oka. After that I would look at the situation before making a decision (peace or not yet). a reason for peace could be a new tech or a lot of money/gpt. I would not try to completely destroy the Iroquois yet.
Not entirely unexpected though. We did discuss an Iroquois attack when we felt ready. I knew it wouldn't be on your turns Aggie with so many long term wonders and small wonders, but I was hoping we could something in Hotrod's turn, to make use of the lifespan of our UU.
I can't look at the save, but I think we should do as much hurt as we can afford without hurting our longer term growth. Basically I agree with Nad
I can't look at the save, but I think we should do as much hurt as we can afford without hurting our longer term growth. Basically I agree with Nad
Aggie
Deity
True, but it took me by surprise after my very very peaceful turns. It got me in a certain mindset I'm happy with it, let there be no doubt!
I'm happy with it, let there be no doubt!
