For Liberty(and pwnage) Ron Paul 2012 Part II

[Crezth]

So you don't think even a small-scale nuclear conflict wouldn't escalate into something horrifying?

 

[RobAnybody]

For example, if you are not allowed to make a profit of more than 25% your expenses, and your expenses are $100, then you can make as much as $25 profit. But if you artificially inflate costs to $200, then you can make up to $50 profit. This is why government-imposed profit caps are stupid.

That would only work if you assume you could raise rates at the same pace with no loss of customers. If your costs go up by $100 (whether you wanted them to or not), & you try to jack everyone's premium up by $100, people will go to your competitor who didn't just try to give them a 100% rate increase.

(I know it's not your argument, I'm just sayin')

 

[Kozmos]

A nuclear war would affect everyone in the end. Stock markets, food prices, environmental effects...the list goes on.

 

[RobAnybody]

In some industries monopolies actually FAVOR the consumer; usually due to massive infrastructure costs EG) Imagine having 20 railway lines running from NYC - Washington DC. It's impracticle, way too expensive and far, far more efficient to have one line.

Sometimes it's good, & you get a national highway system. Sometimes it's bad, & you get an abomination like Time Warner Cable.

 

[G-Max]

So you don't think even a small-scale nuclear conflict wouldn't escalate into something horrifying?

Iran has no real allies. Israel's biggest (only?) ally is us, and we can solve that problem pretty easily. A nuke fight between two countries with no allies wouldn't escalate into anything, though we might suffer the loss of an Intel fabrication plant, and other countries might lose access to Iranian oil.

 

[Arakhor]

Nuclear contamination doesn't respect national borders, you know. Thinking otherwise is incredibly naive.

 

[Crezth]

Iran has no real allies. Israel's biggest (only?) ally is us, and we can solve that problem pretty easily. A nuke fight between two countries with no allies wouldn't escalate into anything, though we might suffer the loss of an Intel fabrication plant, and other countries might lose access to Iranian oil.

If you don't think Israel wouldn't also nuke Pakistan and the Arab countries, and Iran wouldn't nuke its neighbors or even India, then you are being naive. Pakistan and India then also engage in exchanges, maybe India attacks China, Russia... I think you can see where I'm going with this.

All speculation, to be sure, but it's not like Israel and Iran would care much for the world after if they're both assured of their destruction.

 

[Cutlass]

And government is preventing it right now... with the obvious exception of the Federal Reserve

I don't really understand where this hatred of sound money comes from. But it really needs to stop. Destroying the capitalist system in the name of libertarian economics is not just stupid in and of itself, but it is a direct contradiction of the things you claim to believe.

I'm pretty sure that emergency rooms will take care of certain kinds of health problems. Nobody is completely without any and all types of health care.

You can't get routine medical care from an emergency room. They don't have the resources to do it.

5/6 of Americans disagree.

Even the people who can afford the insurance, a smaller number of Americans every year, are having their economic future crushed by the system.

Fixed.

Breaking something =/= fixing it. Deregulation is the primary act by government responsible for the housing bubble and financial collapse. The private sector did the rest.

In some industries monopolies actually FAVOR the consumer; usually due to massive infrastructure costs EG) Imagine having 20 railway lines running from NYC - Washington DC. It's impracticle, way too expensive and far, far more efficient to have one line. Of course to ensure consumer protection you would probably want it to be a state-run monopoly or a heavily regulated private firm with a specific mandate to maximise social welfare.

That's called "natural monopolies". And the 2 ways of handling it are government ownership or rate regulation. Both happen. Though in the US regulation is a bit more common than government ownership. Except for things like roads. But if the government does neither, then you get the worst of all worlds, a private monopoly.

That doesn't make any sense. You seem to be using some strange definition of costs here. Costs are things the insurance company pays out, just like any other industry. If you increase your costs, you increase what the company pays to other people - hospitals, doctors, Scooter Chairs, stuff like that. So if costs go up because the doctor charges more for services, the doctor may make more profit, but the insurance company does not.

If costs go up but revenue stays the same, profit shrinks. If the insurance company can keep costs down, they make more profit, just like any other business.

EDIT: otherwise, why would an insurance company ever deny a claim? if they make more profit the higher their costs, they'd be out trying to get everyone to file more claims, right?

If you get a certain percent profit over costs, then your absolute dollar value of profits is maximized by maximizing costs.

The problem is that the system is now so broken that all sides are being squeezed. The system cannot stay as is without coming apart at the seems.

 

[amadeus]

Monopoly pricing is always the worst pricing.

Yet you want single-payer and a whole plethora of government monopoly-priced services.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yet you want single-payer and a whole plethora of government monopoly-priced services.

You don't think that the distinction between for-profit and non-profit monopolies may be of significance?

 

[amadeus]

You don't think that the distinction between for-profit and non-profit monopolies may be of significance?

You don't think the government is a profit-seeking enteprise?

 

[Ajidica]

A nuke fight between two countries with no allies wouldn't escalate into anything, though we might suffer the loss of an Intel fabrication plant, and other countries might lose access to Iranian oil.

Question: Do you know anything about the political situation in the Gulf?
If Iran and Israel were to get into a standoff war (which would be pointless because neither side posesses the number of standoff weapons needed), Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf Princedoms will be invading Iran faster than you can say 'Shah'. Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf Princedoms really hate Iran, due to both religious and political reasons.
If a standoff war were to break out between Iran and Israel (I'm discounting tactical warfare as there is a massive desert and Iraq between Iran and Israel), it will not remain confined to those two countries and would likely be even messier than the Iran-Iraq War in terms of political fallout.

 

[Cutlass]

Yet you want single-payer and a whole plethora of government monopoly-priced services.

3 options. Worst possible option: Private monopoly. That's where you have the maximum price for the minimum service. Whether regulated pricing or government ownership is best in each situation is variable. In health insurance government has proven so superior to having the private sector having the leading role that they aren't even really comparable.

 

[Traitorfish]

You don't think the government is a profit-seeking enteprise?

...No?

 

[amadeus]

...No?

So the heads of government agencies don't clamor, year after year, for bigger budgets and more authority? They don't insist that they need bigger offices, more staff, more cars, more computers, more rules, more programs?

 

[Traitorfish]

So the heads of government agencies don't clamor, year after year, for bigger budgets and more authority? They don't insist that they need bigger offices, more staff, more cars, more computers, more rules, more programs?

I'm sorry, what do you think "profit" means?

 

[amadeus]

I'm sorry, what do you think "profit" means?

Profit is revenue minus costs. I guess it was a poor choice of words; profits are a good thing, and I suggested that the government was for profit.

 

[G-Max]

If you don't think Israel wouldn't also nuke Pakistan and the Arab countries, and Iran wouldn't nuke its neighbors or even India, then you are being naive.

Why the bloody gorilla fart would they do that? Pakistan is a US ally, as are several Arab countries, and India is currently buying Iranian oil.

I don't really understand where this hatred of sound money comes from.

Federal Reserve Notes are the exact opposite of sound money.

Destroying the capitalist system in the name of libertarian economics is not just stupid in and of itself, but it is a direct contradiction of the things you claim to believe.

You only say that because you have a strawman understanding of libertarian economic policy.

You can't get routine medical care from an emergency room. They don't have the resources to do it.

You never said "routine" before. This is a logical fallacy known as "moving the goalposts"

Even the people who can afford the insurance, a smaller number of Americans every year, are having their economic future crushed by the system.

Well, there's no doubt about that. Of course, I blame the soaring costs of health care on government meddling, so...

Deregulation is the primary act by government responsible for the housing bubble and financial collapse. The private sector did the rest.

"Failure to properly enforce the regulations that most libertarians would have actually agreed with" is not the same as "deregulation". Of course, if there had been no bubble and no burst, and we were actively combating fraud (remember: libertarians hate fraud with a burning passion), it's hard to say that much of note would have happened.

You don't think the government is a profit-seeking enteprise?

Based on the national debt... no.

If Iran and Israel were to get into a standoff war (which would be pointless because neither side posesses the number of standoff weapons needed), Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf Princedoms will be invading Iran faster than you can say 'Shah'. Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf Princedoms really hate Iran, due to both religious and political reasons.

Great! That saves us the trouble of doing it ourselves.

 

[Arakhor]

You never said "routine" before. This is a logical fallacy known as "moving the goalposts"

So proper medical care is only necessary in an emergency?

 

[Crezth]

Why the bloody gorilla fart would they do that? Pakistan is a US ally, as are several Arab countries, and India is currently buying Iranian oil.

Erm.... I'm not sure if you know what nuclear weapons are, but when you're being nuked, you don't have much else to lose. You will launch all your nukes at your pre-indicated targets, and for Israel that probably includes Pakistan.