Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

[cav scout]

For the record I strongly agree with 2metra on these recent RB developments.

We need to send that NAP extension message right away that asks for stone and spices. Don't offer the wine, we will trade that to them for gems later. We need to show a little backbone now for godsake.

 

[2metraninja]

Makes no sense whatsoever bottom to top. Are there a bunch of missing lines? I just seem to be missing some context to get the flow of the conversation.

"what's up neighbours? Which one? On the isthmus?" Surely there's got to be something in the middle of that?

Chats in Civ4 always run from down to top. So you must start reading from the bottom and go up. The omitted 2 lines are RB's and I addressed that already. To my "Hello neighbor", the RB player said: "Oh, hi, so you are about to settle a new city, eh?" To which I say: "Which one?". Then RBer says: "Near the horses", then I ask: "On the isthmus?" from there the conversation is done in this tab. The RBer was writing in the common tab of the chat, while I started the chat in the private RB to CFC tab. Hope this makes more sense now.

70 turns of stone is nothing.

Settle the city where it helps us most (ie, don't settle a rubbish location), and I suspect we're likely to pinch a stone off another neighbour at some point anyway.

70 turns of Stone is a lot. Stone is strategic resource. And Civ is strategic game. Depending on the situation, 1 rubbish city for the sake of getting a strategic resource can be well worth.

Of course if we can have the stone without having to settle bad locations, that would be the best case. But we still need a message to RB in which to ask for it first. If you want something from someone, the first thing is to make the other aware of your claim.

Time is ticking away.

 

[2metraninja]

I will give my second try on the message to be included in the poll along with the other message proposals.


2metraninja's proposal for CFC message to RB v.0.2:

Hi Scooter,

We like your NAP proposal but we want to add a couple things. We would like for the duration of the NAP you to give us the Stone which we were going to get with a city of ours on the isthmus as we informed you. We also would like to increase our happy cap. Since you guys have a surplus spice, we would like your assurance that you will gift us Stone + Spice for the duration of the NAP. We will be getting a bunch of wine resources very soon which we will of course be happy to trade for gems with you as we will be long-term strategic partners. If this is OK with you then we can consider our NAP extended to turn 170 as soon as you confirm.

Caledorn

 

[SilentConfusion]

I think we've discussed the various options a lot. The poll seemed to show that the team feels that we are OK going with Caledorn's instinct on this. Any number of these would be fine to send, but we need to send something like now.

 

[YossarianLives]

The chat is very confusing at first. 2metra sets up the context below the actual chat:

I was online, but he seemingly did not paid attention and tried to open diplo-screen to see what we have. I answered and even managed to type "Hello" and he closed the diplo-screen. I went on and started chat. After them saying "we WON'T STOP YOU from settling 1E either" my blood just boiled up and I started to tremble with anger. I managed to restrain myself from unleashing hell on him and asking him if they are going to STOP us from settling B3 or even 1E from B3 to steal one of their flood plains cottages, because all those sites are well on our side of the midway or at least on the midway.

Whoever he was, I give him points for being true diplomat though. Threatening without actually saying harsh words.

And in a later post:

I though his "Sorry, wrong window" must have given idea that he was typing in the "say to all" tab initially. What was said there by him was: "Oh, you are going to settle another city?"

So I take that to mean that 2metra tried to chat with him in the diplo screen, but it got closed. Then the RB player typed to all: "Oh, you are going to settle another city" and "we won't stop you from settling 1E either". At this point 2metraninja got him on the chat that he posted the image of, which you have to read bottom to top.

Edit: Crosspost with 2metra explaining this himself. Also, I agree that whatever we send, we need to send it already.

 

[2metraninja]

The poll seemed to show that the team feels that we are OK going with Caledorn's instinct on this. Any number of these would be fine to send, but we need to send something like now.

But how it shows it is OK if only 2 out of 7 voters gave their preference for it?

 

[2metraninja]

You know what? I am OK with sending Caledorn's proposal. I am tired of repeating one and the same. Just as I already said some 2 pages ago, I want to see how things will develop this time and if a kind word can achieve more than kind word and a big stick. Will be educational to me.

 

[Caledorn]

I have adjusted the draft a bit, and will send it very shortly. If there is any late minute suggestions, then please give them to me as soon as possible.

Scooter/RB,

We like your suggested extension of the NAP until turn 175, and your suggested status of treating one another as preferred resource trade partners. We would like to add a few things to the table, though. We are going to need some stone very soon, and we are also nearing our happy cap. Since you guys have a surplus of spices, and will also soon have a surplus of stone, we would like your assurance that you will gift us one stone resource and one spice resource for the duration of the NAP. We are soon going to get a surplus of wine, which you will be given priority on offering us a trade for.

If this sounds acceptable to you guys, we consider the NAP extended to turn 175 as soon as you send us a confirmation that all the above is okay.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

Edit: I just noticed they suggested T175 and not T170. I adjusted it to say T175 since we are trying to say that we agree with their suggestion if they meet our demands.

 

[cav scout]

My revision:

Scooter/RB,

We like your suggested extension of the NAP until turn 170, and your suggested status of treating one another as preferred resource trade partners. We would like to add a few things to the table, though. Since you guys have a surplus of spices and will also soon have a surplus of stone we request that you gift us one stone resource and one spice resource for the duration of the NAP. We will be getting a surplus wine soon which will be available to you since you will be our priority resource partner.

If this sounds acceptable to you guys, we consider the NAP extended to turn 170 as soon as you send us a confirmation that all the above is okay.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

This makes the wines a bit more mysterious and doesn't offer any reasons while we need stone or spice. We just say we want them as part of the NAP. We should send this and see what response we get.

 

[Caledorn]

My revision:


This makes the wines a bit more mysterious and doesn't offer any reasons while we need stone or spice. We just say we want them as part of the NAP. We should send this and see what response we get.

Thanks cav scout. You have rewritten it so it looks much better, so except the T170 that should be T175 I will use your draft instead of mine. I agree with your reasoning as well in regards to the resources. So is there any other comments or suggestions? I intend to send it before the clock turns midnight here (which is in 45 minutes).

 

[Caledorn]

That means the current draft looks like this, just for clarity's sake:

Scooter/RB,

We like your suggested extension of the NAP until turn 175, and your suggested status of treating one another as preferred resource trade partners. We would like to add a few things to the table, though. Since you guys have a surplus of spices and will also soon have a surplus of stone we request that you gift us one stone resource and one spice resource for the duration of the NAP. We will be getting a surplus wine soon which will be available to you since you will be our priority resource partner.

If this sounds acceptable to you guys, we consider the NAP extended to turn 175 as soon as you send us a confirmation that all the above is okay.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Above draft sent.

 

[Caledorn]

Scooter did not seem very happy on GTalk, and he said that discussions are slow in the weekend, but that they'd get back to us as quickly as possible. I suspect it is a delay tactic to see what we do with the settler.

 

[Caledorn]

me: There we go. You've got mail
realmsbeyondscooter: thanks! Just got it. I'll pass the message onto the team.
I do have one clarifying question - the wine resources - are you implying that if accept this, you would gift that to us once we've initiated the stone/spice gifts, or you would give us first dibs to trade for it?
me: The latter
realmsbeyondscooter: ok. a teammate just quickly informed me that we're about to hook wine anyways, so my question obsoleted itself anyways
me: Ah, okay
realmsbeyondscooter: Anyways, I will try to get you feedback as timely as possible. discussion is usually a lot slower on weekends, so it may not be lightning fast
me: Great

Now, whether RB will accept this deal or not is entirely up to them. We need to discuss two things:

1) What to do with the settler. If we settle non-aggressively (not to trying to grab the stone with city culture) they may relax a bit and just refuse the deal.
2) What we wish to do if they refuse the deal.

 

[2metraninja]

Interesting that he asked at all about this clarification with the wines. It gives slight hope and at least shows genuine interest. But just in the next line about their own wines, the hope wanes.

As for what we do if they refuse, it is indeed separate issue, which we will need to decide separately and once we have an answer. We can wait with our settler. We are not in hurry to settle this city. All our cities are secured to have units when they grow, so we dont need those wines right away and we can continue the mind game. We can even move the settler OVER the stone LOL. We will need 1 more settler to settle our optimal B2 and C2 spots, but we will get the Stone and show some spine.

 

[Caledorn]

Interesting that he asked at all about this clarification with the wines. It gives slight hope and at least shows genuine interest. But just in the next line about their own wines, the hope wanes.

As for what we do if they refuse, it is indeed separate issue, which we will need to decide separately and once we have an answer. We can wait with our settler. We are not in hurry to settle this city. All our cities are secured to have units when they grow, so we dont need those wines right away and we can continue the mind game. We can even move the settler OVER the stone LOL. We will need 1 more settler to settle our optimal B2 and C2 spots, but we will get the Stone and show some spine.

All good points, and I agree fully. Let's keep the settler standing there while they deliberate what they wish to respond. It's an effective threat at the moment.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Great work everyone. Good job sending the message Caledorn and also dealing with Scooter (that lying cheating piece of trash)...

If they refuse, they get no NAP. Simple.

Great suggestion on the edit cavscout That was a little stronger position to take, which we definitely need to do at this point. TBH, I do not even completely want to take off the table 2metra's suggestion (nmaybe it was a little tongue-in-cheek) that we can just settle ON the stone. What a badass statement that would make

Anyway, I am OK with holding up the settlement to see what they say about the stone, but if they try to stall us more than a turn or so I would say just settle where the team agrees is best. Whether that is to get the stone (I would LOVE to have stone as I want TGW as everyone knows) or to get the best city site and culture war for the stone... Either way I trust the judgement of the MM experts.

I also trust Caledorn's judgment to get that message sent. Great work all.

 

[Caledorn]

It would seem 2metraninja now owes Sommerswerd 5 beers.

GTalk Transcript

 

[YossarianLives]

Excellent, glad to hear that they sound like they're on board. I'm a little skeptical, though. A 10-turn delay sounds like just enough to get the 'mids or TGW before gifting it over. Gift should start immediately, and to compromise we'll build the road to their stone for them. Then they just have to Quarry it to get their own source of stone back.

 

[Caledorn]

Excellent, glad to hear that they sound like they're on board. I'm a little skeptical, though. A 10-turn delay sounds like just enough to get the 'mids or TGW before gifting it over. Gift should start immediately, and to compromise we'll build the road to their stone for them. Then they just have to Quarry it to get their own source of stone back.

That was exactly my thought as well. I doubt they would be reluctant on parting with their stone just to build city walls at this point of the game, so I'm almost willing to bet on the fact that they're working on a wonder.

Edit: One thought I had is that we could call them on it, and ask them what wonder they are building with a promise that we won't try to race them for that wonder. It's a long shot though. Regardless of what we do, I don't think we should give any leeway on this one.