Foreign Policy: RealmsBeyond

[RegentMan]

I like Caledorn's draft. It gives us a tone of strength and lets RB know they can't dictate the marble gift because of their German dealings.

 

[2metraninja]

I was thinking about such scenario too, but I doubt it. And just for the record, the 10-turns window must START between t120 and t150.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That would be highly dubious, since we have offered them the marble twice now..

Agreed. They can't refuse the Marble when we offered it for free twice and then accuse us of breaking the NAP by not giving them Marble. They can try to use that as an excuse but it does not hold water. They would just be dishonorable NAP breakers if they did that.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I was thinking about such scenario too, but I doubt it. And just for the record, the 10-turns window must START between t120 and t150.

What do you mean by this. I thought we decided that the wording says anytime during the NAP but they prefer it by turn 150. Well they cant prefer it by turn 150, and then refuse it twice when we offer it before turn 150.

 

[2metraninja]

I think the wording of our original agreement was that the 10-turns period of gift must START between t120 and t150, not as we thought it must be contained between t120 and t150.

 

[Aivoturso]

The original wording of our agreement was that we will agree to loan marble for 10 turns at some point during our NAP. Additionally the clause says that RB would like this loan to start between turns 120 and 150. But there is nothing saying that the loan must take place during this period. It just was RB's original wish. So the loan can start up to turn 165. After that it is obviously too late to have 10 turn loan during the NAP. The deal also says that both parties agree to be accomodating about the timing. So for example if we are not using marble after turn 160 and RB wants it that time, I think we're obligated to give the loan then.

 

[Maga_R]

I think the wording of our original agreement was that the 10-turns period of gift must START between t120 and t150, not as we thought it must be contained between t120 and t150.

Aivo is giving correct explanation on that.

 

[Aivoturso]

Agreed. They can't refuse the Marble when we offered it for free twice and then accuse us of breaking the NAP by not giving them Marble. They can try to use that as an excuse but it does not hold water. They would just be dishonorable NAP breakers if they did that.

One point about this. From what I gather about RB psyche is that they have a very strong drive to be honourable. However, for this game it doesn't matter to us at all what we or rest of the teams think about them being dishonourable NAP breakers. What matters is that can they convince themselves that it was actually us who broke the NAP conditions. There is no judge or jury to interpret the NAP we have with them. We have to be carful to not give them any excuse, however flimsy, to call off the NAP. We have to keep the negotiations ongoing and only reason we can give to decline a 10 turn loan period before turn 165 is that we need the Marble during that period.

 

[YossarianLives]

So, we haven't yet responded to this email from RB sent on May 16:

Caledorn,

We've been thinking about how to come to a more agreeable deal. We don't have much use for the marble right this minute, and it's unfortunate that later in our agreement it's not available. How about we compromise - we extend the NAP portion of our agreement from T175 to T200, and that means expanding the marble trade window so that we can agree on a mutually beneficial trade period. Does that work for you?

This was Caledorn's proposed reply:

Scooter/RB,

We are aware of the fact that you are receiving marble from the Germans, and that this probably is the reason why you do not need the marble now. We are doing our best to be as accommodating on this as we can, but we cannot take your deals with other teams into consideration, as that was not part of our original agreement. We were prepared to offer it to you immediately upon our completion of the Taj Mahal, but you denied saying it was a bad time, which we assume was because of your deal with the Germans. As things stand now, you can either accept the marble before (or on) turn 145, or you will have to wait until turn 165.

Please let us know your decision.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

And this was whb's "softer" suggestion:

Scooter,

We're aware you've been receiving marble from the Germans for some time (even before we built Taj), but obviously we don't know when your deal with them finishes or whether it even has a finish date. Because you didn't tell us about your deal with them. Obviously we can't just say we'll fit our plans around whichever turn in the future you happen to choose to end your deal with Germany -- we have to get on with our game too and can't just stand forever waiting in the wings for you to be sick of your deal with them before you'll accept the marble from us. But to help you out and encourage continued good relations, we are pleased to offer you two options: 1) turns 145-155, or (2) turns 165-175.

As we have just started T145, we should get them one of these messages ASAP, or we'll need to revise them further since we're losing the T145-155 option...

 

[Sommerswerd]

Either letter is fine with me. I would favor sending the "meaner" one at this point, as if we send the "softer" one now, they will just use it as an excuse to say that they did not have enough time to discuss it.

 

[talonschild]

Yeah. Be meaner.

 

[Maga_R]

Yeah. Be meaner.

Meaner? I was disappointed when I looked at it I do not think Cal's version is mean at all, but Sommer's probably is right that if we want quick answer, this is the way to go, as Cal is asking a simple "Yes/no" question that cannot be misunderstood or misinterpreted - unless you want it very much, of course.

 

[RegentMan]

I was a fan of Caledorn's response, but we'll have to change the end if it is turn 145 now:

As things stand now, you can either accept the marble before (or on) turn 145...

Or just say "this turn" to make it clearer.

 

[talonschild]

Just using terms established beforehand as shorthand. And yeah, given the turn timeframe we need to send this NOW.

 

[classical_hero]

Did we take screenshots of when we sent them the offer? Just so we have evidence to use against them should they try and use the fact that we did not give it to them.

 

[YossarianLives]

Ok, I just sent Caledorn's message, with a slight edit since we're currently on T145:

Scooter/RB,

We are aware of the fact that you are receiving marble from the Germans, and that this probably is the reason why you do not need the marble now. We are doing our best to be as accommodating on this as we can, but we cannot take your deals with other teams into consideration, as that was not part of our original agreement. We were prepared to offer it to you immediately upon our completion of the Taj Mahal, but you denied saying it was a bad time, which we assume was because of your deal with the Germans. As things stand now, you can either accept the marble this turn (T145), or you will have to wait until turn 165.

Please let us know your decision.

Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

We should offer the Marble again in-game this turn.

@classical_hero - I don't think we've taken any screenshots of the Marble gift offers, maybe we should do it with this one.

 

[Caledorn]

I need someone to take over as diplomat for RB for a few weeks while I sort out some stuff in RL. I will post a chat with scooter in a few.

 

[Caledorn]

I posted the chat with scooter now. Quick link

I really am not in a position where I can handle this right now due to RL things that are going on. Hopefully things will become a lot more calm for me sometime in late June. But I would appreciate very much if someone could volunteer for taking up this ASAP as this is my personal honour at stake here.

 

[2metraninja]

Yossa or even better Arki? To not have Yossa being harassed over at Team Gilette in the RB demogame.

Interesting chat btw Scooter's replicas are quite telling.

 

[Maga_R]

Yossa or even better Arki? To not have Yossa being harassed over at Team Gilette in the RB demogame.

Interesting chat btw Scooter's replicas are quite telling.

They are desperate to get an answer to th eNAP question asap - and trying intimidation already. Interesting .