Fox-30: The Sly Fox

berserks01 · May 27, 2008

I'd send the settler to either pink or red dot.

I'm also not sure SY is better than settling the GSpy at the point, but I usually settle GSpies and only build SY when I have some courthouses up.

mystyfly · May 27, 2008

As I see it (from fox' pics) We don't need to block anyone at the moment. We'll need military to clear that barb city so we'll only need the settler once we have the units.

Jabah · May 27, 2008

With 0% research, I can't imagine SY not being the best option in our capital. What might be more tricky is what to do with the second one (as SY in the 2nd best city might be better than setling in the 1st city).

There is a nice BBQ party place next to your guarded hut : lake+4pigs+rice :eek:

And what is Alex doing in this game, having Alphabet but not agriculture,hunting AND animal !!!

GreyFox · May 27, 2008

The problem with red is exactly as I said ... you need to clear all the jungles before it can grow. So I won't settle red befor ewe steal Plantations. Instead, I would go for yellow first. It has a fair amount of production, with horses (not shown on my dot map, but the horses are there by the fresh water lake).

The reason why we don't have gold yet is because it is a waste of time at this stage. We don't need the happiness now.

Granaries are meant to give us better food to hammer ratio.

Having said all that, Ruff, you can of-course do whatever you feel necessary.

--

ruff_hi · May 27, 2008

As expected, on turn 121 we got our first Great Spy ... Mr Gaspar Graziani. I looked at the capital and the argument re settle v scotland yard. Settle gives +12 spy points (and +3 beakers) while scotland yard gives +100% spy points. We have 1 turn to Aesthetics at 70% science. I turn science all of way down to 10% (still finishes the tech in 1), turn up spying to 60% and this generates about 16 spy points in the capital. Thus scotland yard got the nod ... +16 spy points as opposed to settling for +12.

I also rebalanced out our spying (Shaka and Alex were at 0% - was that deliberate because these boys cannot tech?). I upped them to a weight of 2 and everyone else to 1 so that (after about 20 turns) our spy points will be more or less spread evenly over everyone. We should look at this - concentrating our spy points on people that can actually tech.

I traded Agri plus Aesthetics to Alex for Alphabet, thus generating the following new feature in BUG ...

Tech traded to Alexander(Greece): Agriculture
Tech traded to Alexander(Greece): Aesthetics
Tech acquired (hut, trade, lightbulb, espionage): Alphabet

I then had a tech selection issue - what to select as the tech to research. Well, obviously this is a spy-ing game so I pulled up the tech selector, scrolled to the right and selected 'Communism' for the free great spy!

While I was looking over the advisers, I pulled up our new situation report (only really becomes useful once you can trade techs and resources ...

Don't worry about the 'spy' comment - that was just me playing with python to test if my code was working. We cannot see the threat index for the bottom two because we cannot see their power demographics (not enough spy points).

I stopped on turn 127 because we finished our settler and I did some scouting down South and West. I found a very nice production site that I think we should grab next - even moved some workers in that direction (currently sitting in a jungle ready to road!).

I've put little H's on the hills - some of them could be wrong - always hard to see what is a hill and what isn't when there is so much jungle around.

We also lost our Woodie II warrior to a barbarian archer.

Spoiler log :

GreyFox · May 27, 2008

Why squint your eyes to identify hills? A simple mouseover would had suffice :rolleyes:

My first thought is the city is a tad far, my second thought is it is not true to say prod is hard to find in rainforest map. When we steal Guilds, a workshop produce a respectable 2H. My third thought is wouldn't it be better to move it 1S and grab more resources?

As I say, those are first thoughts. Like to hear what the others say abt the new city Ruff identified. Personally, I think yellow dot is fine enough.

Note also Khimer's border to the east of barb city / blue dot.

The espionage weights are set by me. And now you'd gone out of the way to undo it :rolleyes:

Alex and Shaka has the lowest score, and at that time, since we are only producing +4 from GWall, the computer automatically distribute the 4 points to other Civs, resulting in Shaka and Alex to have zero point.

I don't think we can possibly distribute spy points evenly and hope to steal techs. I think it is necessary to concentrate on a maximum of 4 Civs. While it is necessary to have points go to wards Alex and Shaka for counter-espionage purposes, I would have set more weights on the others and less on Shaka and Alex. (Come'on, they don't only look dumb, they are real dumb! :lol:

)

Not sure if that is what we want (do we need to be concerned with WFYABTA limit?), but we could get mediation and/or sailing by trading away writing. Good thing abt this trade is it helps the AI to get a little more advance for us to steal from them.

I am also thinking (prematurely) abt winning condition. Shall we steal our ways to the stars, or should we go dominate the rainforest?

Roster
- GreyFox
- Ruff Hi
>> Berserks == UP!
- Jabah
- Rolo
- Mysty

ruff_hi · May 27, 2008

Fox - all good points ... I really wasn't advocating any of my suggestions, just throwing them out there. To be honest - haven't really been paying attention to this SG

D) so missed your spread of spy points. Totally agree not to spend them on the stupid people - well, maybe enough to see just how stupid they are?

1S would be a much better city.

mystyfly · May 28, 2008

GreyFox said:
My third thought is wouldn't it be better to move it 1S and grab more resources?

I am also thinking (prematurely) abt winning condition. Shall we steal our ways to the stars, or should we go dominate the rainforest?

Clearly DOM

I also agree with fox about spreading EPs: We can only focus on 1-3 civs and shouldn't spread them evenly. We can let a few eps go to smaller civs and do backfilling there but most EPs need to go towards the big boys where we'll get the big tech.

berserks01 · May 28, 2008

Got it. My turn to be devious.

Jabah · May 28, 2008

GreyFox said:
My third thought is wouldn't it be better to move it 1S and grab more resources?

I was more thinking of 1SE as it as 1 more hill than 1S and swap a banana for a rice (but then the empty tiles looks suspect, it might wel have uranium or another production bonus).

Jabah

GreyFox · May 28, 2008

I think 1SE vs 1S swaps a banana and a rice (in the northwest) for a rice (in the southeast).

Jabah · May 28, 2008

GreyFox said:
I think 1SE vs 1S swaps a banana and a rice (in the northwest) for a rice (in the southeast).

You're definitively right, I should not look at picture and post after a long (and exhausting) early morning meeting :rolleyes:

berserks01 · May 29, 2008

Ok, I lied. I don't have it. Can I get a swap anyone?

Jabah · May 29, 2008

I can try to play it (I have the save now), but I have my GF's parents at home until Sunday (and sleeping in the Civ4 computer room), so it is not very convenient. I need to find a cunning plan like sending them all to the restaurant while I look after the little one, and play once he is asleep.

In short, I could try to play tonight and/or tomorrow night, but if someone has a clear free-time, he could/should not hesitate to grab the save and play (but post it so we won't be playing at the same time).

Jabah

Jabah · May 30, 2008

T0 - 825BC (t127)

Shuffle a bit the working citizens, at Poverty Point, work gold instead of truffle (worker in 9t instead of 8t), then give truffle to Cahokia (instead of farmed grass).

Settler going for 'new production and food', archers shuffling to cover him.

reorganise the EP slightly with the aim to have tech-visibility on all as no one has impresive tech lead (that we could see) for now.

T2 - 775BC
reduce slightly the %EP to have a bit of cash in case

T4 - 725BC
Confuscianism fidal

T5 - 700BC
Shaka convert to Confuscianism !!! who gave him some brain pills.
Sury has finished Monarchy.

We can see every one research now.
Will wait 4t to allow Washington to finish Poly teism before trade with him.

Reorganise EP towards Sury (closer than Shaka, has also nice techs and don't want to annoy Shaka right now)

T6 - 675BC
Found Chaco Canyon on 'food+production' place. Start totem.
City unhealthy and stagnant from too many jungle and being unconnected (but roading in progress)
I suggest it will be our military place for now.

GW has a settler party going toward us. (will settle Atlanta 1N or 2N)

T8 - 625BC
Mehmed wants us to stop trading with GW. We already have a '-1' for refusing to stop trading, so we now have '-2' instead.
Alpha is well known, and we need the cheap techs to see who is advanced further down this line.

Trade Alpha for Poly+Sailing (doesn't want to add meditation) with GW

T10 - 575BC

Clean the last cheap tech, selling Alpha to Mehmed for Medi+Priest
(no penalty from anyone for trading with worst ennemy yet).

T11 - 550BC
Cahokia (size8, happy limit with the connected gold) finished the 2nd spy -> settler (but Oracle still there and 16t, we probably have no chance without marble and forrest to chop, so I decline).

T13 - 500BC

Not enough gold to prevent road being destroyed, cutting the gold form Cahokia, which lead to unhappiness there. Redirect 2 workers.

T15 - 470BC
Mehmed is 1st to Math (every Ais are researching it almost).
2 spies are out (1 starts investigating a Sury City).
2 are in (slow) progress.
1 settler ready in 4t (need to play tight with our small army to protect him toward its destination)
Iron connected, Totem next turn in Chaco, I suggest barrack next then military (and a granary when we have access to food).

Jabah

Save attached

GreyFox · May 30, 2008

Great, spies are loose!!!

But our army is a bit in the shambles ... we need to beef up a bit to deter others from attacking us. We also need more workers to start cottaging ... our economy isn't at all pretty, although playing it through spying does gives us some flexibility, but I think we should be building more cottages. I would suggest we suspend for a while settler and spy production after the current builds are done, and instead concentrate on some military and workers.

As Shaka is the only one having CoL (which is quite a crucial tech), I guess we should be weighing our EPs towards him, and sent the spies there instead. Mathematics can then be easily traded for.

Berserks, are you ready to take the game back?

-

Jabah · May 30, 2008

Regarding EP and spy : My initial idea was to steal Monarchy from Sury (who is close), we probably need a bit more EP for that (even counting the 50% stationary bonus, as we have almost enough to steal Mono without bonus iirc), then see who and which tech should be next.
Shaka seems to be tech leader (as unbelievable as it could be), so Shaka should be next.

I think (need to check) that we could have 'spying' bonus for being connected and/or open border. In that case roading towards Sury and Shaka could be usefull (including to reduce the travel time for our spy)

Jabah

ruff_hi · May 30, 2008

GreyFox said:
But our army is a bit in the shambles ... we need to beef up a bit

Lucky we built that production powerhouse down South! Well, when we clear the jungle away

.

mystyfly · May 30, 2008

Good turns :goodjob:

I agree, focusing EP on getting CoL will be nice. We gift some cheap techs (to shaka, alex, saladin) and get some diplo+ while we build units.

I don't think we should steal monarchy. We can trade aest around for probabely monarchy, maths, calendar, construction.

berserks01 · May 30, 2008

I've got it for real this time. Really ... no lie...

Fox-30: The Sly Fox

Obviously Very Confused

Knight of Cydonia

Emperor

Make it so ...

Live 4ever! Or die trying

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Make it so ...

Live 4ever! Or die trying

Knight of Cydonia

Obviously Very Confused

Emperor

Make it so ...

Emperor

Obviously Very Confused

Emperor

Emperor

Attachments

Make it so ...

Emperor

Live 4ever! Or die trying

Knight of Cydonia

Obviously Very Confused

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