From A to Z: #3 Augustus

Whoa... some heated comments going back and forth here. I surely did not expect that!

I'd say that there are right and wrong ways to playing the game, but also that there are many different right ways to playing the game as well. It seems everyone has a different approach, and that's fine. If there is only one way to play this game, then what's the point anyway? ^_^

Just some quick comments before I post my next turn sets that will surely bring floodgates of criticism of its own...

The Oracle is a wonder that is useless unless it is self built, but the benefits of the Pyramids are still there even if captured. Also the former has less window of opportunity in building it, so right from the start, you gotta either commit to it, or forget it. Oracling doesn't make sense all the time, but in this game, with being Industrious, getting Metal Casting early for the cheap Forges is very attractive. With this same map and not industrious? Probably not.... not for me at least.

The Pyramids is a tricky one. Its benefits are awesome, but it also costs quite a lot. The question, of course, is.... who is gonna build it for you if you don't build it? Sometimes it would seem very obvious... when you have scouted out your next door neighbor, who is industrious and has access to stone... (Remember the Alex game? My first next door neighbor, Stalin, just happened to be in a situation like that, and he ended up building it for me and I ended up killing him and taking it for free)... sometimes not. There is always a chance that it can be built by someone that you cannot reach for a very long period of time until at a point in the game that the benefits no longer are useful... Sure, it is nice to get it for free, but in cases where you are given the tools to make it much easier and cheaper to build it yourself, I'd rather take the opportunity to build it myself and take control of the situation.... if I can. Going back to the Alex game, even if I were industrious and had stone in the BFC in that game, I wouldn't have bothered with it, because I knew that my starting land was terrible and that the only way to survive, at least in my opinion, was to wage war as early as possible, and take better land from my neighbors.

I like going about and smashing things and capturing cities from AIs just as much as anyone... and I prefer to war with earlier units rather than later ones... and Praetorians fit that criteria rather well. But the conquest has to be worth my time and effort as well. It's not like going out to conquer something doesn't have its cost associated with it either. In an ideal situation, Lizzy would be right next to you without all that jungle separating us on the way, and she'd build the Pyramids for you, and you would go take it with your Praetorians and feel good about it. Whether it turns out to be that way remains to be seen, of course.

Just one last thing... the usage of my unique smily in the form of ^_^ is restricted to me and only myself, and that anyone who uses it shall forever be doomed as NOOBTROLL!! ^_^ J/K!!
 
Gwaja..Gwaja..Pyramids cost less than the Oracle here.
This discussion is caused by peoples who are mostly not playing normal maps or games.
You are smarter than falling for this ;)
Putting a few forests more in hurts less than researching 3 crappy techs, and talking about rather capturing them already goes into super silly territory. But again, caused by the way they play their maps.
 
Gwaja..Gwaja..Pyramids cost less than the Oracle here.
This discussion is caused by peoples who are mostly not playing normal maps or games.
You are smarter than falling for this ;)
Putting a few forests more in hurts less than researching 3 crappy techs, and talking about rather capturing them already goes into super silly territory. But again, caused by the way they play their maps.

You know how much I value your knowledge in this game. ^_^ Though I fail to understand how you view the Pyramids as less costly than the Oracle... or are you counting the cost of beakers, in addition to the hammer cost obviously, for researching the prerequisite techs you need to get for Oracling Metal Casting?

I am not entirely sure that the Priesthood line of tech tree is considered crappy, as sometimes I value it to get to Code of Laws this way, rather than the Currency route, which surely will take more time to get to CoL..... but then again who in their right minds is gonna say that Alpha, Math, and Currency are useless? ^_^

Stick around a bit and I shall post my update soon. I played a rather... sloppy round, and some interesting results.
 
Well i'm comparing hammers and tech order :)
Let's see..Pyramids cost you 500/2/1.5 = 200h. Very cheap.
Oracle..150/1.5 = 100h.

Now 100h difference are 2 forests cos you get 50h for each with stone wonders, without maths or anything. At your starting position, 2 forests are let's say easily found.

Main differences are that you can research AH for an awesome food tile, which works together very well with whipping or growing for rep. specialists. You can also tech masonry, where you get 2.5h again for the great wall (fail gold or build, or both) cos this can go later on Immortal.

You can also set up a settler producing city with many hammers (cows, stone) while Rome grows fast and will have no problems getting 2 Rep. scientists while still being productive.

Then, you get Great Engineer + Scientist points (very nice).
The whole MC argument is very questionable with marble too, 150% bonuses again for Literature wonders. I would probably take Aesthetics anyways with an Oracle.

Now all this does not even include considering that your Oracle date would be questionable, you could lose that. You cannot lose a very powerful Pyramids, Parth, Glib and so on combination.
Even if you tried, i think you could not lose those wonders here.
 
@Fippy you are so convincing that I agree with you 100% now :]
 
Well i'm comparing hammers and tech order :)
Let's see..Pyramids cost you 500/2/1.5 = 200h. Very cheap.
Oracle..150/1.5 = 100h.

Now 100h difference are 2 forests cos you get 50h for each with stone wonders, without maths or anything.

@Fippy you are so convincing that I agree with you 100% now :]
:rolleyes:
 
@Izuul
Each hammer to Pyramids is worth 1 hammer +1,5 hammer (0,5 fom Ind, 1 from stone) =2,5 hammer. 500/2,5 = 200.
Oracle: each hammer is worth 1,5. 150/1,5 = 100 without marble
Do we count it bad?
 
Each hammer to Pyramids is worth 1 hammer +1,5 hammer (0,5 fom Ind, 1 from stone) =2,5 hammer. 500/2,5 = 200.
Oracle: each hammer is worth 1,5. 150/1,5 = 100 without marble
Do we count it bad?
So far so good. And how much is each forest worth?
 
So far so good. And how much is each forest worth?
50 for pyras and 30 for Oracle. That makes 2 forest chops for Pyras and only 1 turn left supposing grasshill is worked, so in fact it doesn/t make any difference


I suppeose with so much forest 2 wonders are possible *Oracle in 2 turns with forest prechop, even 1 turn if we doublewhip imperialistic settler before,

I am not sure here, could anyone confirm? Population is changed into hammers while whipping. So doublewhip imperialistic settler makes 60 hammers. Supposing we max overlow, it is possible to get ca. 60 hammers from settler overlow, right? The question is if this overflow if put into wonder is multiplied again? That will make ca. 90 hammers into Oracle at very beginning. +2 chops = Oracle ready.

Settle cow/stone with this settler, get forge while improving stone (or gold site if it is 3rd settler), build Mids fast.

I am not sure if overflow is multiplied if put into wonder and how to count overflow from imperialistic settler
 
"no" what?
 
Each forest is worth 20:hammers: (without math).
 
Not hating on Oracle, but having let's say MC is so much less powerful than having Pyramids.
In the last sgotm if you read Plastic Ducks thread, they even settled a stone island early for them.
They won the competition.
Here you have stone and Ind in front of you, and some peoples think they are no must have.
Blasphemy, nothing else :b

Come on Fippy, prove them you are correct when you got some time. Show 'em a 1200AD victory or something :)
 
Says she who is about to build the Oracle for the third game in a row ;)

LOL! ^_^ You got me there! But I had a valid excuse in the first 2 games you see... Alex game, I had to do it because I wanted to do Horse Archer rush and get better land ASAP... and as for the Asoka game, I was isolated so I needed the tech boost!

You know what's funny? I may do it four times in a row... because the next dude in waiting after Augustus is.... ?

Bismarck. And he is industrious too! ^_^

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As for the hammers per forest without Math for Pyramids:

20 hammers base
+100% for having stone
+50% for being "industrious"
+25% for having a Forge.

So that is 20 x 2.75 = 55 hammers! ^_^

Come on Fippy, prove them you are correct when you got some time. Show 'em a 1200AD victory or something :)

1200 AD victory is asking a lot though... even for a Deity player playing on Immortal! ^_^
 
Isn't it multiplied after chopping?
Remember that you already did this:
Each hammer to Pyramids is worth 1 hammer +1,5 hammer (0,5 fom Ind, 1 from stone) =2,5 hammer. 500/2,5 = 200.
Oracle: each hammer is worth 1,5. 150/1,5 = 100 without marble
Do we count it bad?
 
Not sure what's going on, with Ind and stone each forest for Pyras = 50h ;)
Why i'm saying, they cost almost nothing here.

@Sound i think everyone is already bored of my games, i have several Deity + Pyra wins here.
There would be nothing new to see i think.
Let me find another game from back then instead that Dirk posted, i liked that one..ah here..
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=442576

I think i had this rather detailed with not an easy start (this one looks better at first glance), where i won only because of that 1 wonder.
 
Remember that you already did this:


Hah! I got it finally! Thank you!

Sampsa what about imperialistic settler overflow? Do my math into Oracle in 1 turn makes sense?
 
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