FTS-02 The Immortal One

[Conroe]

Is the One City Challenge really that much more difficult? The higher difficulty levels see the AI expanding at an alarming rate. Playing OCC certainly solves the problem of how to keep up! But of course, it brings other problems -- namely the difficult acquisition of resources.


Game Settings

• Leader: TBD
• Difficulty: Immortal
• Map Type: TBD
• Map Size: Standard
• Speed: TBD (Normal Preferred)
• Victory Condition: Just Win (All Enabled)
• Opponents: 6 AI
• Barbarians: TBD
• Other Options: Permanent Alliances Enabled
• Variant: One City Challenge (OCC)

Starting Screenshot

So, who is up for the challenge? OCC experience is not required but I would prefer that at least 1 or 2 players on the roster were not OCC virgins.

Roster:
Conroe
Methos
mike p
sooooo
adamlan

Please state your preferences (and reasoning) for leader, map, and barbarians when signing up.

 

[Methos]

Sign me up.

 

[Strauss]

I'll be lurking here, sounds very interesting. Would have signed up if I wasn't going on holiday tomorrow. Good luck!

 

[Methos]

With an OCC game I prefer playing as Bismarck. Financial helps significantly with technology since we only have the one city. Industrious is nice as wonders are very helpful. With an OCC game I’ve found one of the best strategies is getting as many great people as possible and merging them as super citizens.

I typically play without barbs, but anymore I usually play HoF games.

Map-wise I don’t really have a preference. It would be better to be able to establish some sort of early contacts as relations and trading are extremely important IMO for an OCC game.

Edit: In case it matters, the last week of July I'll be out of state and have no civ access.

 

[LuvToBuild]

An Immortal OCC? Yikes! I wouldn't mind playing but my Noble butt would probably get creamed so I think I might just lurk and learn.

I've played a couple of OCC's at Noble a while back after reading an OCC Deity thread. I played as Saladin as was suggested in the thread and I might suggest the same for you guys, not that I'm an expert. I think the Philosophical and Spirtual traits plus starting with Mysticism and getting an early religion can be a good thing in an OCC. Just my opinion of course, for what it's worth.

 

[Conroe]

Glad to have you on the team, Methos!

With an OCC game I've found one of the best strategies is getting as many great people as possible and merging them as super citizens.

I agree. If we can manage to snag the Pyramids, Representation would give this strategy a real boost. Plus, the extra early happiness until the Globe is built would be a real help. Maybe one of the industrious civs that starts with Mining? That would give us a leg up on Masonry and the Pyramids, especially if we have a stone start. I'm thinking Bizmark (Exp), Gandhi (Spi), or Qin (Fin).

I've played a couple of OCC's at Noble a while back after reading an OCC Deity thread.

Do you have a link?

 

[Methos]

I'm thinking Bizmark (Exp), Gandhi (Spi), or Qin (Fin).

Whoops, apparently its been a while since I played as Bismarck, as I was thinking he was Financial. Either way, Bismarch has always been my preferred OCC civ, with Qin as the 2nd.

Pyramids is a definite attempt with an OCC. Representation early plus the bonuses with the merged citizens work excellent together. Another one that is nice is the Great Lighthouse for the bonus trade routes.

 

[LuvToBuild]

Do you have a link?

OCC Deity

There are some good pointers in the article that would be useful regardless of the direction you decide to head. I'm sure you've already picked up on a lot of them though, since it sounds like you've played quite a few OCC's.

It does sound like Bismarck would be a pretty good choice. The extra health is good in an OCC.

 

[mike p]

I'm willing to play if you still need people. I've never beaten Immortal, but I can slug it out against the AI on Emperor, and have completed the OCC on Monarch.

Industrious sounds like a good idea. Early wonders help grab resources by cultural expansion and give a leg up on Great People points.

Expansive is nice for cheaper granaries, and we will almost certainly hit the health limit eventually, so it basically means we get specialist and a half from it in the late game.

Financial is OK, but we'll only have a few tiles that will be generating lots of commerce. It's one of the traits that gets better with larger empires.

Gandhi might be the best choice. Spiritual is always useful, and it means we don't miss any turns of production to anarchy. Flexibility with Civics and religion might also make it easier to deal diplomatically and snag a permanent alliance. Down side is that the UU isn't much help with so few tiles to improve. Gandhi also starts with mining & mysticsm.

On the other hand, Philisophical is nice too - Liz is great if there are seafood resources handy, and Redcoats need no special resources. But I think Gandhi might be best for this.

 

[Conroe]

@LuvToBuild: Thanks for posting the link. It was certainly a well written and most interesting read.

The strategy proposed in that thread appears to hinge on the idea that you have overloaded the map with players. IIRC, 18 civs on a small map was what the author suggested. I must admit that this is something that I had not thought of. But, it does seem a bit exploitive to me. I don't know, maybe that is the only way to win on deity -- I certainly haven't gotten a diety win yet. For this game, I think we will stick with the normal number of opponents.

The strategy also relies on obtaining a PA with another civ. I plan on enabling PA's for this game, but I am hoping that a win is something that we can do on our own. By the time a PA is available, we should have a pretty good idea of where we stand with the other civs. Having PA's enabled will be a good fall-back if we are too far behind. If we are doing pretty good, we may just beeline to Fiber Optics and build the Internet to catch up.

The thread does shed light on an interesting reason to choose a Spiritual leader, though. We would be in a better position to acquiesce to demands for civic/religion changes. After 5 (or 10?) turns, we could freely switch back. We could give in to these demands (to maintain/improve relations) without taking the 2 turn anarchy penalty. It certainly makes Gandhi a more attractive leader, but I'm not 100% convinced that is our best choice.

 

[Conroe]

Welcome aboard, mike!

Excellent, we now have 3 people with OCC experience. We could use a couple more sign-ups, though.

Financial is OK, but we'll only have a few tiles that will be generating lots of commerce. It's one of the traits that gets better with larger empires.

True, financial does improve with a large empire. But, on OCC every little extra commerce helps. Especially after all of the modifiers start kicking in.

Gandhi might be the best choice. Spiritual is always useful, and it means we don't miss any turns of production to anarchy. Flexibility with Civics and religion might also make it easier to deal diplomatically and snag a permanent alliance. Down side is that the UU isn't much help with so few tiles to improve.

I find that I typically do not switch civics much in an OCC, as there are a handful of choices that seem to be optimized for OCC (ie Bureaucracy, Caste, etc). Honestly, though, I am not sure which would be the best leader for this game. My favorites, though, are the 3 Ind/Mining civs that I mentioned earlier.

We could always use the UU to do some exploration after all of our tiles are improved. You can also use them to bait the barbs to "guide" them away from improvements that you would prefer not to be pillaged.

 

[sooooo]

Would you take me? Have never tried Immortal, but can beat Emporer roughly half the time. Have played OCC at Monarch level.

Favourite traits for OCC are Philosophical, Industrious and Expansive. Health barrier is really important for OCC where you don't have many resources. I like to generate lots of GPs and merge them, so philo or industrious. May I suggest Peter or Bismarck.

EDIT: Are we sure we want PAs allowed? It's fun to get a OCC PA at least once, but I find that it's not in the spirit of the variant and gets annoying when your partner doesn't behave sensibly.

 

[Conroe]

Welcome aboard, sooooo!

EDIT: Are we sure we want PAs allowed? It's fun to get a OCC PA at least once, but I find that it's not in the spirit of the variant and gets annoying when your partner doesn't behave sensibly.

Well, you are correct. My thinking was to enable it just in case things start going badly for us, as a way to salvage the game. We are probably going to be on fairly good terms with the "big scary civ next door" (hopefully) and may even already have a DP. If we feel like we need the PA, it would be an option for us. But, we can leave it off if that is what everybody wants ...

 

[LuvToBuild]

@LuvToBuildThe strategy proposed in that thread appears to hinge on the idea that you have overloaded the map with players. IIRC, 18 civs on a small map was what the author suggested. I must admit that this is something that I had not thought of. But, it does seem a bit exploitive to me. I don't know, maybe that is the only way to win on deity -- I certainly haven't gotten a diety win yet. For this game, I think we will stick with the normal number of opponents.

The strategy also relies on obtaining a PA with another civ. I plan on enabling PA's for this game, but I am hoping that a win is something that we can do on our own. By the time a PA is available, we should have a pretty good idea of where we stand with the other civs. Having PA's enabled will be a good fall-back if we are too far behind. If we are doing pretty good, we may just beeline to Fiber Optics and build the Internet to catch up.

Yeah there are aspects of it that seem exploitive or gamey on the surface. I think it was that thread or one like it where several people were debating about the difficulty of an OCC with 18 civs on a small map compared to the usual amount on a standard map. Good points were made by both sides and my own experience indicates that its not the slam dunk one might think. While its true that your opponents might only have one or two cities in the beginning, it probably won't be long before wars change that since the AI can capture and keep or raze and replace cities but you can't. Plus, there is a fair chance that you will find yourself at the bottom of the pecking order eventually. With 18 civs, you can bet that Monty, Napoleon, Genghis, or some such despot will make you his whipping boy. More times than not, you'll probably find yourself gangraped by all three at once. The first attempt I made on Noble with those settings, I had Catherine, Napoleon, and Monty all picking on me almost non-stop.

 

[Conroe]

We have 4 players now. Do we want to go ahead and start or wait for a 5th? I'm agreeable to whatever the team decides.


We, of course, still need to pick a leader. Several suggestions have been put forward and we should probably take a vote.

• Bizmark (Ind/Exp) Techs: Hunting & Mining UU: Panzer
• Qin (Ind/Fin) Techs: Agriculture & Mining UU: Cho-Ko-Nu
• Gandhi (Ind/Spi) Techs: Mining & Mysticism UU: Fast Worker
• Elizabeth (Phi/Fin) Techs: Fishing & Mining UU: Redcoat
• Peter (Phi/Exp) Techs: Hunting & Mining UU: Cossack
• Saladin (Phi/Spi) Techs: Mysticism & Wheel: Camel Archer

I think I've listed them all. Let me know if I missed one that was mentioned.

 

[Methos]

I’m not very fond of using Philo for an OCC game. The trait benefits are definitely nice, but not as good as those from being Ind. IMO wonders are something we should definitely plan on and I’m thinking the benefits from being industrious will definitely help out playing immortal. Having never played immortal, I’m unsure how quick the AI builds wonders.

My vote would be for Bismark, as we’ll need the extra health. Happiness won’t be a problem due to Globe, but health will.

I’d suggest we go ahead and play, but than I’ll be gone from July 21st until July 29th so I'm a little biased.

 

[sooooo]

I'm happy to play with a roster of 4 and with Bismark.

 

[mike p]

I'm fine with starting with 4. Any leader but Saladin is OK with me. He's fun for chasing lots of religions and for cultural victories, but the wheel is a useless worker tech by itself. So it sounds like Bismark.

 

[Conroe]

Sorry that I was out of pocket all day. It ended up being rather hectic around here.

It sounds like we have decided to go with Bismark. I'll see about rolling us a couple of starts to choose from and we can get this game rolling. Nobody really has expressed any preferences on map or barbs. I will go ahead and use a random Pangaea with normal barb settings, unless anyone has any objections.

I'll see about getting us 3 or 4 starts to choose from. I like to be rather picky about OCC starts since we cannot improve on things later on.

Edit: I was going to roll some starts tonight, but I am just too tired. I need to go to bed -- I will roll some tomorrow after Church.

 

[Conroe]

It turns out that rolling a couple of starts to look at isn't as easy as it sounds. I didn't think that my expectations were that high, as I was only looking for a start with 2 food resources and stone. I came up with 6 choices.



This one has 1 food and stone. It is coastal with a large fresh water lake (3f with Lighthouse). I'm not sure if there is enough production potential with all of that water. This would have been a nice start for Qin, though!



This one is also 1 food and stone. It is also coastal, but other than that not much really to admire.



This one features 2 food and gems. The gems would be a nice commerce boost. It is also coastal and on a plains hill. And best of all, it is near the equator. We might be able to build the space elevator on this one.



This one has 4 food and gems. It looks like it would have a natural choke point, making it easy to defend. A couple of extra resources for trading potential, but it seems too green to have any possibility for stone.



This is a really interesting one, in that it appears to be inaccessible by land. It should be easy to defend, and I doubt that we would have any barb issues whatsoever. Plus, it has 3 food and a whale, as well.

No Thumbnail

No thumbnail on this last one, as there is a five attachment limit.

Since it has marble, I doubt that we would have stone for the Pyraminds. However, marble would definitely be an asset. It would be coastal with a fresh water lake in addition to the 2 food resources.