[RD] Games as a Service

[abradley]

Linux rather than Win 10

 

[AdamCrock]

I really prefer to buy a game but when there's no other option than "rent" I'll have to stop playing them Fortunately GOG is a shining beacon of hope in these dark times, otherwise PC gamers would switch to consoles a long time ago. Wait... please do not tell me there's a rent-a-game mechanism on consoles too ...

 

[TheMeInTeam]

(Also, should I take the RD off the thread? I just remember some mess over in the game sexism thread. But maybe this isn't so touchy.)

I doubt you'll get much pushback on the assertion that "games as service" is an anti-consumer joke. Only downside to RD tag in this context is that it's slightly harder to communicate how one likely feels about these kinds of moves.

Them doing this with fallout 76 is ballsy. It's not a well-received title in the first place, so this is quite the tack-on considering.

Linux rather than Win 10

I find it regrettable that I still need to use Windows 10 for some games. If that weren't the case I wouldn't have it on my machine at all.

I'm grateful most stuff runs natively on Linux now, but quite a few games sufficiently old or new + dependent on proprietary directx crap don't.

 

[Lexicus]

I really prefer to buy a game but when there's no other option than "rent" I'll have to stop playing them

*puts on pirate hat*

Arrgh, me hearties, there be booty over the horizon!

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

At least until games go streaming-only.

 

[Lexicus]

Incidentally this crap is another reason to hate inequality. Companies do these blatant money-grabs because there is a decent pool of people who can just afford to pay for whatever stupid extortion they engage in. That's a consequence of rampant economic inequality.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

Also there's still large parts of North America (and probably the other continents, but NA at least likes to pretend it's first-world) that are still stuck without high-speed internet. They can be completely locked out of playing games by stuff like streaming games and always-online.

And of course, everyone gets locked out when the company inevitably runs out of money and shuts down the servers.

 

[Gorbles]

Fallout 76 is plagued by all sorts of idiocy in management and business decisions, but games as a service aren't inherently flawed. There's a lot I could write on this, but basically:

1. Games costs are escalating in ways that not everybody can afford in a lump sum. Prices were static for far too long for the base product (which caused problems in of itself) and we're finally starting to see the "why are games more expensive" when my working wage seven years ago, by inflation alone, is 10% less in real terms than it is now. Prices in that time, for pretty much any goods (except something like video games), have increased by more than 10% in that time. Video games are one of the outliers.
2. This brought us F2P titles! So many F2P titles. Too many F2P titles. Some more exploitative than others, but all ultimately doomed to compete for the resource in lieu of an upfront cost: consumer attention (spans). This is also what commonly drives established "F2P" games to become more (or less) predatory over time.
3. Games as a service is a middle ground between zero-barriers to entry in F2P - which also solves a lot of the inherent grief and abuse inherent in F2P playerbases, and high-cost upfront products. However, they're subject to the same market pressures as F2P games and often require higher operating costs (they're typically more cloud-based, event-driven, and customers have grown to expect this. But they don't have the "but they're free" defense of F2P or otherwise "freemium" titles).

It's a bit of a weird time, especially if you're a 20-something who grew into a 30-something but watched your disposable income shrink at the same time as your creature comforts got more expensive.

What can I say, I don't buy many games anymore

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A game for $1? Sign me up! Which one is it?

It was on sale. I think it is normally...seven dollars? Anyway, Journey of a Roach. It's a point and click adventure/puzzle game, detailing the journey of a couple mutant cockroaches from the depths of a fallout shelter in search of a fabled flower blooming on the surface. It's lighthearted, funny, and entertaining...and also features a video mechanic in which the main character always appears upright so when you walk him up a wall or even further onto the ceiling, the presentation of the game world rotates smoothly around him.

 

[Zardnaar]

I really prefer to buy a game but when there's no other option than "rent" I'll have to stop playing them Fortunately GOG is a shining beacon of hope in these dark times, otherwise PC gamers would switch to consoles a long time ago. Wait... please do not tell me there's a rent-a-game mechanism on consoles too ...

Yes you can pay for Xbox gold, gamepass ea access while Sony has PS plus.
You get the games but if you stop subscribing they stop working.

Even worse I had Fallout 4 and when gamepass ran out it disabled my legit copy and the dlc.

I reinstalled but dlc didn't work.

 

[Takhisis]

For the record, I'm pretty intrigued by a game that I just bought on sale at GoG for ninety-seven cents. It appears to have been better debugged than any BethSoft title since Morrowind. Other than the fact that the main character is a cockroach and all the other characters are also insects, of course.

From your subsequent descriptions of the game, it sounds as if you hit paydirt with that one.

Linux rather than Win 10

Well, yes, this one goes without saying. But Windows' aura is as pervasive as Coca-Cola's.

Incidentally this crap is another reason to hate inequality. Companies do these blatant money-grabs because there is a decent pool of people who can just afford to pay for whatever stupid extortion they engage in. That's a consequence of rampant economic inequality.

Also there's still large parts of North America (and probably the other continents, but NA at least likes to pretend it's first-world) that are still stuck without high-speed internet. They can be completely locked out of playing games by stuff like streaming games and always-online.

And of course, everyone gets locked out when the company inevitably runs out of money and shuts down the servers.

Back when I first joined CFC (I bring this up every now and then, because it's still an unsolved problem) I had to explain to posters from the US how the ‘cheap in the USA’ pricing strategy meant that piracy was more or less endemic in larger sections of the world outside Northwestern Europe and English-speaking North America (not that in these regions there wasn't widespread piracy), to the point that getting original copies of some games was a complete rarity.
Of course, software companies have been regarding lost profits as actual losses since forever, not realising that a lot of people simply aren't going to pay (why else would YouTube be a worldwide jukebox, the replacer of the old Kazaa+Winamp duo?) because they cannot and/or will not. With a remotely-managed system (e.g. Google Stadia) you can improve the numbers by having no ‘lost profits’. Like many other things in the post-Reagan/Thatcher era of FREEDOM! it's all an accounting trick. You just shift the losses and liabilities onto somebody else.

 

[Zardnaar]

From your subsequent descriptions of the game, it sounds as if you hit paydirt with that one.

Well, yes, this one goes without saying. But Windows' aura is as pervasive as Coca-Cola's.


Back when I first joined CFC (I bring this up every now and then, because it's still an unsolved problem) I had to explain to posters from the US how the ‘cheap in the USA’ pricing strategy meant that piracy was more or less endemic in larger sections of the world outside Northwestern Europe and English-speaking North America (not that in these regions there wasn't widespread piracy), to the point that getting original copies of some games was a complete rarity.
Of course, software companies have been regarding lost profits as actual losses since forever, not realising that a lot of people simply aren't going to pay (why else would YouTube be a worldwide jukebox, the replacer of the old Kazaa+Winamp duo?) because they cannot and/or will not. With a remotely-managed system (e.g. Google Stadia) you can improve the numbers by having no ‘lost profits’. Like many other things in the post-Reagan/Thatcher era of FREEDOM! it's all an accounting trick. You just shift the losses and liabilities onto somebody else.

Games overseas are a lot cheaper.

Games are underpriced IMHO. They're cheaper here now than in the 90s and that's unadjusted for inflation.

Game development costs are spirialing. A good single player game should really be 50%-100% more.

I don't mind paying more for quality and convenience but not loot boxes, cash grabs etc.

I use 2 subscription services combined cost around $85 a year for 250 odd games.

 

[FriendlyFire]

It's a bit of a weird time, especially if you're a 20-something who grew into a 30-something but watched your disposable income shrink at the same time as your creature comforts got more expensive.
What can I say, I don't buy many games anymore

No way, the advancement in technology, competition and mass production of electronics means the almost everything we consume has fallen.
While we might be paying more for electronics and software what we actually get in return of value has increased significantly,

Some companies been gouging users with microtransactions and loot boxes and DLC galore.
You can always run an android emulator plenty of good casual games avaliable these days

 

[AdamCrock]

Games costs are escalating in ways that not everybody can afford in a lump sum.

Is that really true ? I played a ton of old games matching or even exceeding the complexity and design of new titles. So what do the new games have that is so super costly that cannot be covered in one sum per copy (even taking a prognosis of million copies sold - i. e if a game priced at 1$ being sold at million copies - that's 1 million $ ) I can buy a lots of stuff for 1 million $ But back to the original question : what those new titles have that is so expensive ?

 

[Zardnaar]

Is that really true ? I played a ton of old games matching or even exceeding the complexity and design of new titles. So what do the new games have that is so super costly that cannot be covered in one sum per copy (even taking a prognosis of million copies sold - i. e if a game priced at 1$ being sold at million copies - that's 1 million $ ) I can buy a lots of stuff for 1 million $ But back to the original question : what those new titles have that is so expensive ?

HD graphics. Some poor sod has to program each blade of grass.

You need to hire a larger team, sell the game at the same price as a PS2 game but the games have ballooned in size and cost and often not selling more than ye olde PS2 game.

Patches these days can be over 100gb, a PS2 game can fit on a 4gb DVD iirc.

 

[AdamCrock]

Each blade of grass ?! It can't be. I though only 1 through x variations and the rest is just copy-paste job Nevertheless You have a point about graphics though - still I am not entirely convinced it's as expensive as producers want us to believe. The weight in gb is not entirely convincing either . You can have a scene or a map which weights so much because it contains a lot of elements.

 

[Zardnaar]

Each blade of grass ?! It can't be. I though only 1 through x variations and the rest is just copy-paste job Nevertheless You have a point about graphics though - still I am not entirely convinced it's as expensive as producers want us to believe. The weight in gb is not entirely convincing either . You can have a scene or a map which weights so much because it contains a lot of elements.

Someone has to program all that data.

GTA 5 200 million
Assassin's Creed 100 million

I think Star Citizen is up to 250 million.

A game at 50 dollars the developer only gets iirc maybe $10 so you need to sell millions of copies just to break even.

 

[FriendlyFire]

I think Star Citizen is up to 250 million.
.

Star Citizen is an anomaly
Not only dose it have endless macrotransactions, microtransactions, subscriptions, thats keeping it afloat. Its shot past its budget, release dates and has a troubled development history
I feel like its a joke, given that Hello games with its tiny studio of around 18 people are out programing CIG.

 

[Zardnaar]

Star Citizen is an anomaly
Not only dose it have endless macrotransactions, microtransactions, subscriptions, thats keeping it afloat. Its shot past its budget, release dates and has a troubled development history
I feel like its a joke, given that Hello games with its tiny studio of around 18 people are out programing CIG.

There's plenty of other examples. Witcher 3 was $60 million in Poland.

 

[Akka]

I absolutely despises the idea of "game as service". There is a reason why I only ever pay something if it's one GOG.