[GS] Gathering Storm General Discussion Thread

[V. Soma]

he kept losing apostles/missionaries due to a volcano or something.

Where did that happen in the video, at what time?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Where did that happen in the video, at what time?

It was an anecdote he reported. It wasn't shown.

 

[Jaybe]

Oh and generally rebalance both upgrade costs and production costs

I have already changed my game so that upgrades costs are 100% of upgrade net production percent cost (instead of 75%), in addition to upgrade base cost of 25 (instead of 10).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Eleanor was associated with the 'High Chivalry - troubadour' movement of the High Middle Ages, and troubadours were active both as writers and musicians and itinerant among various courts. This seems to me to be the way to focus: She could provide a major boost to acquiring Great Writers and/or Great Musicians who can be used in an Envoy mode or some other Diplomatic function. I know of no way to give her a Production function without warping what little history is associated with her, but she could give England back some of the Cultural advantage lost with the demise of the British Museum.

I'll make a prediction, by the way, that one of the first Mods for Gathering Storm will be an England with a 19th century leader (Disraeli, Palmerston?) and the returned British Museum...

At the risk of losing that certain ability from the game entirely they could make the British Museum a wonder that anybody could build as well. It would have to be next to a Theater Square with an archaeology museum obviously.
Culture was second in nature to domination anyway for England and I find the changes okay.
However a culture/chivalry ability that ties into miltary bonuses could work for her either for France or England.

Something I‘m wondering about is how Maori the Maori will be. I don‘t know much about South Pacific History (nor do I care much). Would an exploration-focused Maori civ make any sense? Or would that rather mean that the Maori are a Polynesia blob civ in disguise, unblobbed by name only? As I said, I don‘t know much about the region‘s history, but I don‘t remember ever reading that the Maori themselves were great explorers. Their ancestors much more probably. Shouldn‘t they be some kind of coastal warrior civ?

The leader seems to be Kupe who is the legendary founder of the Maori who sailed from somewhere else to get to NZ. The exploration and wayfinding I think would be part of his leader ability, and I think that is what the trailer hinted at.
The warrior culture part would still make since as the Civ ability. I think this is a good representation and what I would likd to see considering they will most likely be the only Polynesian representation we will get.

 

[Absolution]

...What are you talking about? Qart-ḥadast is a perfectly legible Semiticist transcription of the Punic name which is readily decipherable to anyone who knows how to read usual Semiticist linguistic transliteration (i.e., q is an emphatic consonant [in this case a velar ejective rather than a voiceless uvular plosive as in Arabic/Aramaic; ḥ is a voiceless pharyngeal fricative). Writing it in Hebrew isn't any more accurate because the Carthaginians used the Phoenician alphabet, of which Hebrew is a descendant. Also, based on your use of h rather than ḥ I'm guessing you're familiar with Modern Hebrew, but you have to bear in mind that Hebrew has lost a lot of its dorsal consonants (as well as its entire ejective series) under the influence of Indo-European languages. (Also, yes, Qart-ḥadast is spelled with SHIN, but Phoenician merged SHIN and SAMEK very early in the language's history so that both are pronounced /s/.) So in short I'm not getting how you can say Qart-ḥadast is less accurate that Qart-hadasht--because it is. Carthago is how the Romans transcribed it, which via French gives us English Carthage.


I said as much myself.


That would be an acceptable compromise.

I'm not sure whether dragging on an ego-based arguement is the good thing to do, but I will, sorry.
Obviously I am fully aware of the frauds of Modern Hebrew, and I will never use Modern Hebrew characteristics when discussion linguist issues.
Obviously I am fully aware of the use of Phoenician alphabet, our father. This alphabet is greatly intellegible (if that's the right word?) with the later Hebrew alphabet, early Hebrew texts were written in a very similiar script, and using Hebrew letters to represent Phoenician words is kind of a second best.
Ultimately, I dislike the use of profesisonal tranliteration-oriented forms of letters and rules for non-research puproses. Those varients on the Latin H and S may contribute to discussion between linguist, but they are nearly annoying when used to simply write the name of a place or a term in a distant language. Anyway, those are ruled which were decided by the researchers of the subject in order to establish regulated discussion methods, not forms of alphabets or langauge which have been developed by speakers of the langauge in order to represent sounds and varients that appear in the language. I may have gotten lost in explanations, and it could have been clearer in Hebrew or face to face, but I hope you got my idea of why I don't consider those form of transliterations to be better in that case.

I wish for an option to have leaders and cities in original script and language. Wouldn‘t be hard to implement.

Would be hard.
First, I'm not sure if it is technically easy for developers to insert so many different scripts in one functionning game.
Moreover, you'll have to make some great effort to add Cuneiforms and Hieroglyphs as typeable scripts and not just as pictures. And some other, weirder scripts, of really obscure civs.
Or maybe it is a super simple thing, I just don't know enough of the technical part here.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

At the risk of losing that certain ability from the game entirely they could make the British Museum a wonder that anybody could build as well. It would have to be next to a Theater Square with an archaeology museum obviously.
Culture was second in nature to domination anyway for England and I find the changes okay.

But a Museum associated with archeology and the Theatre District's Great Work slots would be better associated with the Smithsonian Institution, which to my mind combines Cultural, Artistic, Archeological (natural history) and technological history better than the BM (and I've visited both of them several times).
I like the idea of bringing a 'special museum' back as a Wonder, but it seems - well, limiting, to reduce the type to one only when we already have trouble (well, I have trouble) finding enough places to stash Great Works.
One possibility, if there is enough 'clamor' for the British Museum advantage, might be to give some English unit (Redcoat?) the ability to capture Relics and Great Works when a city is captured or a District pillaged.
Of course, given the amount of art and archeology works purloined in the past 200 years, I'd almost prefer that to be a general ability for all Civ's - let the stuff circulate a little more...

 

[Siptah]

Would be hard.
First, I'm not sure if it is technically easy for developers to insert so many different scripts in one functionning game.
Moreover, you'll have to make some great effort to add Cuneiforms and Hieroglyphs as typeable scripts and not just as pictures. And some other, weirder scripts, of really obscure civs.
Or maybe it is a super simple thing, I just don't know enough of the technical part here.

Those are available as typable script. Hieroglyphs is just linear instead of in squares. Only problem I see is Scythia ;-)

 

[Zaarin]

@Absolution I'm sorry if you got the impression I was being argumentative; it wasn't my intent. I just wasn't (and still am not) clear why you think a more accurate transliteration would not be, well, more accurate, at least for those who know how to read them (who are the presumed target audience anyway). NB just because a script is native does not necessarily mean it's the best way to write a language--cuneiform was horribly cumbersome for virtually every language that used it except Sumerian, and at one point Middle Persian was written using Aramaic as logographs. People use what's convenient, not necessarily what's efficient; not every language is written with the equivalent for Hangul for Korean. In the case of Semitic scripts, the Phoenician alphabet overrepresented Phoenician/Punic consonants and didn't represent vowels at all (some late Punic inscriptions use matres lectiones, but that was abnormal for Phoenician); I think it's entirely fair to say that Semiticist Latin letter transliterations of Punic are more accurate to the language as it was spoken...

Moreover, you'll have to make some great effort to add Cuneiforms and Hieroglyphs as typeable scripts and not just as pictures.

Cuneiform and hieroglyphs are both supported by Unicode.

 

[Siptah]

Can we have volcano eruptions prevent aircraft usage for the following one or two turns?

 

[Zaarin]

Can we have volcano eruptions prevent aircraft usage for the following one or two turns?

Isn't there already an achievement for that?

 

[Siptah]

Isn't there already an achievement for that?

There can be more than one reference, right? Too much of the same can be funny. The new eu4 DLC that introduces pirate republics seems to bristle with Monkey Island references for example.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Can we have volcano eruptions prevent aircraft usage for the following one or two turns?

The AIs already got that covered!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

But a Museum associated with archeology and the Theatre District's Great Work slots would be better associated with the Smithsonian Institution, which to my mind combines Cultural, Artistic, Archeological (natural history) and technological history better than the BM (and I've visited both of them several times).
I like the idea of bringing a 'special museum' back as a Wonder, but it seems - well, limiting, to reduce the type to one only when we already have trouble (well, I have trouble) finding enough places to stash Great Works.
One possibility, if there is enough 'clamor' for the British Museum advantage, might be to give some English unit (Redcoat?) the ability to capture Relics and Great Works when a city is captured or a District pillaged.
Of course, given the amount of art and archeology works purloined in the past 200 years, I'd almost prefer that to be a general ability for all Civ's - let the stuff circulate a little more...

The Smithsoniam Institute does sound better. However, even though it is a museum it would make more since that it has to be adjacent to a Govt Plaza with a national history museum.

On the subject of finding artifacts, it could make since as part of Victoria’s ability that her archaeologists could travel faster than others as the vast collection of the museum happened during her reign.

 

[Zaarin]

There can be more than one reference, right? Too much of the same can be funny. The new eu4 DLC that introduces pirate republics seems to bristle with Monkey Island references for example.

"How appropriate. You fight like a cow."

 

[bite]

We've Updated the Features Thread, Thanks to Proclo for spotting the PCGamesN article

 

[WillowBrook]

But a Museum associated with archeology and the Theatre District's Great Work slots would be better associated with the Smithsonian Institution, which to my mind combines Cultural, Artistic, Archeological (natural history) and technological history better than the BM (and I've visited both of them several times).

How about they add both the Smithsonian and British Museum? It would be a serious over-simplification, but they could limit the first to artifacts from the country that built it and the second to artifacts NOT from the country that built it.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Did anyone notice on the scene in the trailer with the Oosterscheldekering that the chyron says Kamperland is safe? Kamperland is apparently the portion of the Netherlands protected by it. So that is definitely the specific flood barrier they are showing there.

Now whether it's actually in the game is yet to be seen.

 

[AvianBritish]

*Pants* YES!!! Wow... 54 pages... I hate my timezone and my work scheduled... I missed the first few days of discussion and have only just caught up.

Like most, I love how much new and interesting content they have; I thought Rise and Fall had a good amount but this more or less a whole new game it feels like; disasters that continue throughout the game (like loyalty and eras in R&F) but with Future Era and World Congress in the late game too!

I am also on the bus believing in the leaked Civs and Leaders; not too fond of Kristina from what I've heard but I would need to do my own reading... Canada I've joked about before and wouldn't mind (I really wanted them in the game to prove my Canadian friend wrong since Australia's release) however I would prefer another native american peoples instead. As for their music it would be interesting to see what they choose as their theme; I am more partial for "Northwest Passage". It sounds so unique as a melody and has a lot of potential to be manipulated from acoustic, to medieval fair, to orchestral and then synth remix.

Not quite as in your face as Waltzing Matilda (Which I love oh so much) but it can be so subtle but distinctive - defiantly my favourite Canadian theme.

I'm over joyed about England's makeover; although I loved the "British Museum" I was always frustrated when it didn't work in conquered cities and other Civs could conquer England's cities for that bonus. I'm glad we got an industrial revolution directed bonus; however in having the world congress and diplomatic favours; I would of also liked something to boost that seeing as the UK has the most soft-power in the world according to most reports - however could this be Eleanor's ability? (Seeing as France are significant in soft-power too; along with USA and Germany)

My only gripe with the expansion is that it's only showing one aspect of "Climate Change" in the form of Global Warming... Can they hot also have Global cooling too? Perhaps in the early game before industrialisation the climate can grow colder; freezing over rivers decreasing their freshwater bonus and giving units damage per turn from the cold? Something like around the times of the Thames Frost Fairs.

EDIT: I wonder if they will have a 5th variant of each Civ's theme for the "Future Era"? An entirely synth version of each theme~

 

[warpyg]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/civilization-vi/civilization-vi-gathering-storm

This article mentions, we are now able to build new terrain improvements such as bridges. Right now we only have bridges over rivers. So does this mean we are going to be able to build bridges over coast tiles spanning two land areas? Something similar as depicted with the Golden Gate Bridge wonder? What do you think?

 

[WillowBrook]

I wonder if they will have a 5th variant of each Civ's theme for the "Future Era"? An entirely synth version of each theme~

That would be really cool. I'm guessing it would be too much work, but if there's any chance it can be done with the resources available, I hope they do!