Gay book ban

[Hotpoint]

Please....Belief is a choice. Nobody but me controls MY destiny. Besides, lets say I take your arguement to heart...where does that leave me? Not believing in God? That would be my choice based on the circumstances we are in. Then my worldview would be much like yours I'd imagine, I wonder if Genetics played a part in that?

Just because you prefer to think Belief is really a choice does not make it so. Have you actually looked into this subject or are you dismissing it out of hand? From the tone of your post I'll have to guess the latter.

I'm willing to freely admit my genetics plays a role in determining my worldview, there's just too many studies demonstrating it to dismiss the notion out of hand.

This genetic stuff is a very clever tactic that eliminates personal responsibility. It also runs contrary to the prinicples of Democracy. All my decisions are mine and mine and mine alone.

Once again just because you would like something to be true does not make it so.

Study this subject Sword. If you are unprepared to do so you are merely proving that you are either stubbornly willfull or else too unsure of your faith to test it.

If you would rather live chained to your DNA, that is your business, but know that your life could be alot better....

Ignorance may be bliss but it is still ultimately ignorance. If you wish to remain in the dark that is for you (or perhaps your DNA ) to decide.

Knowing the chains are there makes it easier to break them by the way. As long as you fail to acknowledge they bind you they will continue to do so.

 

[Rik Meleet]

There is no such thing as Homosexuals or Heterosexuals. There is only a choice, to Sin or not to sin. The line between the two is completely artificial. Sex is ment for a man and his wife(a Woman) and vise versa, and noone else.

If this really is your opinion then it still is no justification to want to stop people who are attracted to people of the same gender from writing novels or to be in novels or to marry.
I do not agree with your opinions and in fact I find them awful. I don't consider sex strictly reserved for a married couple consisting of 1 woman and 1 man. I know sexual orientation is not a choice. But what I find most repulsive it that some people and some governments want to stop people who are not (completley) thinking the same as they do, from living their lives as they want to.
I don't like to collect stamps or to play tennis or squash; in fact I find it stupid activities. I also know that many people enjoy those activities. The bible doesn't say these activities are good either. There are even books on people who enjoy these activities; for instance "The world according to Garp - John Irving".
The fact that I don't like it doesn't mean that I want this book banned.

I suffer more from other people playing tennis (as the sport-department can be rented out to them, blocking me from doing my activities there) than from 2 same-gender people getting married or actively make love. And still I don't want those activities banned.

 

[Elrohir]

I think if a textbook says "Homosexuality is entirely normal and determined by your genes" it should be banned, as that has not been proven by science, and should not be taught as a fact. If someone wants to teach it, they should write a column on it.

I'm not a big fan of censorship, but if these books are glorifying homosexuality, then I suppose banning them is a good thing, although if it's just a minor character that's gay, then I would leave it be. It'd have to be judged on a case by case basis.

As to what to do with the books, I think we should either A) Give them to France, or B) Air-drop them into Iran, pervert their minds and cause revolutions and chaos to erupt so they cannot develop nuclear weapons, killing two birds with one set of books.

 

[wilbill]

silly me.

Would someone who believes that sexuality is a choice please describe for me how they made their decision on the day they chose to be heterosexual? I don't remember making that choice, myself.

On Topic - I could list hundreds of books that I find offensive, valueless, inflammatory, or generally without merit, but I would not for a second condone banning them or limiting their distrubution. When you support banning ideas you're admitting that you fear those ideas.

BTW, this proposed ban would include a novel by Lynn Cheney, wife of our Vice President. Sisters has been described as "a rapturous novel of Sapphic love!". In brief:

The novel of a strong and beautiful woman who broke all the rules of the American frontier....where the relationship between women and men became a kind of guerilla warfare in which women were forced to band together for the strength they needed and at times for the love they wanted. In her effort to grasp the meaning of her sister's life and death, Sophie discovers the secret that tainted her life...

I imagine this proposed law would make Mrs. Cheney the first wife of a vice president to have her literary efforts banned. Quite an honor.

 

[Tomoyo]

I'm not a big fan of censorship, but if these books are glorifying homosexuality, then I suppose banning them is a good thing, although if it's just a minor character that's gay, then I would leave it be. It'd have to be judged on a case by case basis.

A lot of books glorify heterosexuality...

 

[The Last Conformist]

Let's just remind everyone that it's not a question of choice vs genes. In fact, it seems that the biggest factor is the uterine envrionment.

 

[Syterion]

What I don't understand is why homosexual sex is considered unethical? Because God said so? (Please don't tell me yes) The real reason is because it is different from the norm , and in the past (and today) anything different was and is demonized, leading people to believe that homosexuality is unethical.

Still believing homosexuality is immoral is simply foolish. I cannot condone it. People still relying on religion as a crutch for subjects they haven't thought about is abhorrent. The world needs to start basing beliefs on logic.

You can say it is just your opinion, and I'm all for freedom of speech, but let me say this:Sword of Geddon, your opinion is wrong.

Simple. As. That.

 

[Tomoyo]

What I don't understand is why homosexual sex is considered unethical?

Because it just is

The real reason is because it is different from the norm , and in the past (and today) anything different was and is demonized

And with good reason! Anything different is a threat to society and will ultimately lead to the downfall of civilization.

Still believing homosexuality is immoral is simply foolish.

We're entitled to our beliefs, whether you think it or not. Believe it or not, idiots in big numbers are very potent.

People still relying on religion as a crutch for subjects they haven't thought about is abhorrent.

Perhaps we have thought of it. What if we just conclude that it is unethical for different reasons, like because it just isn't meant to happen?

your opinion is wrong.

Technically, you can never prove that.

I'm being sarcastic

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Whenever you have all the answers you can dismiss religion, but until then, it is as good a source as any for moral guidance.

Indeed, without an arbiter of Morality(God) their can be no morality at all, as this is left to the individual to decide. Morals form the backbone of civilization, they are even more important than laws. One of the institutions holding civilization toghether is the family, and you want to destroy that.

 

[Hotpoint]

Whenever you have all the answers you can dismiss religion, but until then, it is as good a source as any for moral guidance.

Or as bad a one

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Secular "Morals" get looser and more permissive every decade. Soon enough murder will be seen as an exceptable form of population control. Murder will just be viewed as a late-term abortion. And reality TV will be a true life or death situation.

 

[Mise]

Indeed, without an arbiter of Morality(God) their can be no morality at all

I'd rather not think that morals were arbitrary.

One of the institutions holding civilization toghether is the family, and you want to destroy that.

That's cos we're all evil satanist queers.

 

[Tomoyo]

One of the institutions holding civilization toghether is the family, and you want to destroy that.

Then why don't we take all children from single parents? Besides, homosexuality has nothing to do with families anyway, unless the family is made up of ignorant homophobes.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

First rampant divorce, now Gay "Marriage". Don't you realise that you guys aren't fighting the status quo anymore? You ARE the status quo

 

[Tomoyo]

...and you are trying to bring us back to the status unquo.

 

[Mise]

First rampant divorce, now Gay "Marriage". Don't you realise that you guys aren't fighting the status quo anymore? You ARE the status quo

Did you read Little Raven's thread about "rampant divorce"? Apparently, the states with higher divorce rates are the ones outlawing sodomy...

I'll get a link in a sec. Here it is:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=106486

 

[Hotpoint]

Secular "Morals" get looser and more permissive every decade. Soon enough murder will be seen as an exceptable form of population control. Murder will just be viewed as a late-term abortion. And reality TV will be a true life or death situation.

Congratulations. I just splattered my keyboard with Coke laughing.

You're a comedy genius Sword



For the record check the difference in homicide rates between agnostic secular Europe and the church-going USA

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

The reason the Homicide rate is higher is because the US has a larger population than Europe does. Europe's is shrinking, America's is growing. It has nothing to do with whether or not people are religious or not.

You just don't like me, or people like me, because our views are diametrically opposed to your own, and therefore want to lump all the world's problems on us. I can't say I'm any different in that regard, I'll be honest. It really depends on your worldview.

 

[Mise]

He said homocide RATE! That's RATE if you didn't get it the second time! RATE meaning PER CAPITA or total homocides divided by population!

It really depends on your understanding of simple words...

 

[Syterion]

The reason the Homicide rate is higher is because the US has a larger population than Europe does. Europe's is shrinking, America's is growing. It has nothing to do with whether or not people are religious or not.

You just don't like me, or people like me, because our views are diametrically opposed to your own, and therefore want to lump all the world's problems on us. I can't say I'm any different in that regard, I'll be honest. It really depends on your worldview.

Europe has 1.5 times the people in the U.S.

And I don't think you need an arbiter of morality for there to be morals. Explain to me exactly why God feels homosexual sex is immoral, and then you can argue for him. But you will probably counter with the fact that you do not have the ability to comprehend God's thought processes. So then I ask: Why listen to him? Again the answer seems destined to be: Because he said so.