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What are some of the strongest versatile civs right now?
I dont know if they can be called strongest, but there are a few civs that I find easier to win than the others:
- China: great snowballing potential thanks to her UA. UB is decent and UU is extremely strong. Very versatile you can do anything with China.
- Byzantium: She can do whatever she want with her religion, very powerful, and versatile.
- France: I really like France. At the first glance it seems that his UA is all about warmongering, but you can do just a little of conquest and his UA is great for defend too. His UI and UU are very strong.
However, I think all civs have their strengths and weaknesses. So there is no strongest civ in the game IMO.
 
Mongolia’s the strongest right now. The annex on heavy tribute is overtweaked at the moment, and extremely dangerous. Versatile, not so much.
 
How is everyone finding the golden age civs right now? We had the change to the Great Artist's bulbing about a month and a half ago, and I expected these civs to need a rebalance.

Small list from Galbias here, I'd add France and Japan due tot heir UA generating artists as well:

Korea - 30% GP rate and 15% Science from UB.
Persia - 1 Movement and 15% combat strength for units when in GA.
Brazil - 50% of GAP convert to Gold and Tourism when triggering a new GA.
Egypt - Additional 20% Wonder production during GA.
Ethiopia - Additional 25% Faith during GA.
 
In addition to the civs already mentioned, Inca would be near top of the list in terms of versatile civs for me. Even when they don't start near mountains, their UI is excellent and provides a source of food and production (flexibility!). Their UU is quietly one of the best in the game and retains its benefits on upgrade. Double movement on hills makes them excellent at attacking or defending.

I think most would also agree that Poland is at the top of the list.
 
Mongolia’s the strongest right now. The annex on heavy tribute is overtweaked at the moment, and extremely dangerous. Versatile, not so much.

Bleh. That’s opinion, that’s not a fact. Which is fine, you can have it, but it’s not objective.

G
 
I have quit 2 playthroughs because Mongolia ran away with the game before I disabled the Annexation in my local install, so it is opinion borne from anecdotal evidence. I really don't want to have to set aside a weekend to demonstrate what I am talking about with pics, but if that is what it will take then I guess I will have to.

It would be better if someone like @Minh Le or @CrazyG did though, because they are better than I am.

Mongolia is very strong right now. Hide yo' kids; hide yo' wife levels of strong. The fact that no one has produced a demonstration of this, like @Minh Le's excellent work with Denmark, doesn't make that not true
 
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Mongolia’s the strongest right now. The annex on heavy tribute is overtweaked at the moment, and extremely dangerous. Versatile, not so much.
You mean op.
But I want to mention the Inka, their UU comes with 1 tech and has double attack. You can get high lvl xp units very fast, their Improvement enables them to grow even in hilly terrain and mountains with up to 7 food/science is like a self sustaining scientist.
 
With Mongolia is it worth dipping into Tradition for an Authority border blobs strategy or does that not really work anymore?
 
The primary criticism of the Mongolian UA was that it was janky, awkward, and people didn't like using it. The criticism was generally NOT that it was too weak/useless, just that people kinda hated it.

In response, the forced annex was changed so that it could be used more frequently, and so it gives a massive bucket of yields, where previously it gave none. I don't know what you were expecting; that this WASN'T going to be too strong now?

A forced annexation of a Maritime city in Classical gives me a free city and 1051:c5food: in the capital as an instant yield. In Classical. I have no words.

If you Force annex a religious CS, that's a free GProphet for your religion. If you already got a religion (because Mongolia's already no slouch on founding with Ger + God of Expanse), then congrats, you get a free enhance.
With Mongolia is it worth dipping into Tradition for an Authority border blobs strategy or does that not really work anymore?
Generally it's not worth the culture cost of slowing down the Authority tree. You also miss out on a lot of yields by delaying the Tribute policy.
 
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What are some of the strongest versatile civs right now?

Versatile as in policy/playstyle choice wise? So you can do well with more than one playstyle?

Poland is slightly pushed towards wide with progress/authority + fealty, but can generally do whatever it pleases. No big push towards anything, though Ducal Stable, Fealty and lots of pastures are an obvious synergy.
Maya can go all trees and are strong. Tradition/Progress are the best, but no pressure.
Byzantium the same, you can choose whatever religion you want and have tons of faith. Can go GP focused beliefs/choices, can go warmongering, can be peaceful. You however will have to pick beliefs that fit each other.
Ethiopia also works for all three starting trees though Tradition the least imho, but in medieval Fealty's probably where you will wish to go.
China too, go tall and spam GWs, or conquer everything. Raze, resettle with your own, bonus yields. Everything works. Good for beginners. Just don't tech to the next era too fast, it might not always be worth it
Inca are sort of versatile too, but a part of it disappears without RNG. If you start with no mountains and only several hills you still benefit, but that's nothing compared to what you could be getting otherwise. The most powerful with the right RNG, the only flaw is Culture and that can be indirectly gotten with bonus Production/Food from the UI.

This applies to versions before the last two, from my experience expansion is not viable without adjustments now.

Mongolia’s the strongest right now. The annex on heavy tribute is overtweaked at the moment, and extremely dangerous. Versatile, not so much.

Maybe they'd be so in a version where not everyone is emo, happiness exists and not everything is despair, but right now I think getting a city like that is negative, especially early on where you'll have that useless puppeted City State you cannot raze cost you 2-3 happiness, 7 Gold while giving you 0.4-0.8:c5science::c5culture: before medieval, which is rounded down to nothing because only full numbers count.

With Mongolia is it worth dipping into Tradition for an Authority border blobs strategy or does that not really work anymore?

This tactic even as Russia is pretty bad in my opinion. You lose yields per city from Authority while gaining situational yields in the capital that scale far worse with bigger city count, lose having your yields per border growth doubled from Authority finisher, lose a few Tribute yields per border growth as the borders grew a few times from you picking Tradition > 1st policy into Authority, lose having your scaled per era border yields later, your UA becomes less powerful in the long run and you have problems building stuff because less production. You slightly snowball technologically at first, only to have that very ball disintegrate itself from your greed.
It was always overrated and even before Authority got Tribute double yields in the finisher it wasn't good.
 
Maybe they'd be so in a version where not everyone is emo, happiness exists and not everything is despair, but right now I think getting a city like that is negative, especially early on where you'll have that useless puppeted City State you cannot raze cost you 2-3 happiness, 7 Gold while giving you 0.4-0.8:c5science::c5culture: before medieval, which is rounded down to nothing because only full numbers count.
Right now it's worth it for the 250% heavy tribute instant boost alone. If that's a Religious CS, congrats you just founded/enhanced. If that's a Militaristic CS, congrats, you just unlocked 1.5 free techs. Maybe avoid Maritime CSs, with the current happiness problems though
 
Yeah, if I'm Mongolia and I start near a religious CS, that pretty much guarantees that I will get a religion/Enhance my religion by annexing it, but outside of that early-game boost you could get for :c5science:, :c5culture:, or :c5gold: Mongolia doesn't really snowball any more than Poland, Maya, Ethiopia, etc.

Now, if you could get those boosted yields for Heavy Tribute and NOT be forced to Annex the CS so that you could farm those yields then that would be totally OP. But there are only so many City States in the game, and you can only Annex so many of them. And yes, Maritime CSs really don't seem to be worth Annexing for that :c5food: explosion in your capital. I don't really have any issues with overall empire population with Gers, and dumping that much food into my capital just seems like an easy way to generate extra :c5unhappy: from getting ahead of the infrastructure curve.
 
Let’s move the Mongolia concerns to the Mongolia thread.

For flexibility I like China, i can win most ways with her.
 
As an aside, I do feel like China needs a slight nerf, but I don’t know what I want to do to her. Maybe take away the % bonus for techs known by other players?

G

You could go with a very slight drop to the WLTED bonus, like 5%, if your just looking for a small reduction.
 
Something as small as 5% on a UA is bad optics. Better to do away with the WLTED bonus in the UA entirely, and slightly buff the paper maker.

China already gets +10%:c5gold: from the building. You could simply remove the gold maintenance and call it a day.

Or, you could move the +10%:c5food: to the paper maker. That way it is unlocked later, and cities require a paper maker in the city first. That's a veeery small nerf, but still a nerf
 
how about no WLTED for creating Great Works or gaining cities? Make them import some luxuries to make people happy.
 
how about no WLTED for creating Great Works or gaining cities? Make them import some luxuries to make people happy.
that doesn’t sounds like something IRL China would do though. China had a very strange relationship with the concept of international trade for a very long time.
 
As an aside, I do feel like China needs a slight nerf, but I don’t know what I want to do to her. Maybe take away the % bonus for techs known by other players?

G

At the moment, the bonus decline is 50%, right? Why not increase it a bit more like 55% or 60% so entering a new era hurts a bit more and slows down China snowballing slightly?
 
how about no WLTED for creating Great Works or gaining cities? Make them import some luxuries to make people happy.

That’s more than a small nerf to me. Thst is the predominant source of early China growth right there.
 
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