Geography and History in US school curriculum

[downtown]

Oh yeah but all based on our fine institutions: Clinton was educated at Oxford I believe,

Well, for part of it. Clinton did his undergrad right next door at Georgetown University

 

[Sidhe]

Yeah,i did neglect to say Oxford and the many British universities too as well.I have to say,as long as the english language is the world's currency language,i see Anglo/American hegemony lasting another hundred years or so.

Funny i keep thinking of the catholic church(and how they lasted) era when they had all the monopoly on institutionalized knowledges.

I think your missing the great Universities of Europe that spawned the greatest thinkers of the 20th century. We arent a hegemony we are a great educational system in the world in conjunction with all western countries and we copied the first universities of Europe. And wherever English spread such as Australia, New Zealand, India etc, etc there stands testament to great educational institutions.

Even the Islamic countries have some particualry fine institutions as do Israel and China and Russia et al, we should thank the Greeks for the original concept: Greek education for example is much more involved than English or US as I was told by a Greek M.Sc, what he learnt at that level was far more accomplished than what he learnt in his Doctorate in England, which is somewhat ironic.

 

[Xanikk999]

I agree geography study is lacking in the United States. However i dont think it is particularly different from any other country in the wester world.

But even if it is most americans know enough common geography to get around in life. Everyone knows the capital of most european countries such as germany, france, and great britian. And most people know many asian countries capitals as well.

However geography is not the most important subject for everyone to know. Only the basics to mid level should be required for everyone. So i dont see a point in making everyone know the capital of countries such as botswana, singapore or saudia arabia.

Knowing the countries cultural differences is way more important then knowing simple facts such as capitals.

 

[Sidhe]

I think your missing the point of geography or history etc, capitals are somewhat irrelevant: who cares? Knowing about the actual country is a great boon surely to understanding, be it geography, religion, history and cultural heritage.

 

[Irish Caesar]

My public school history education was excellent. I'd take anybody on in American History!

 

[Sidhe]

way to miss the point, who cares about one country of 192, really? One history is as relevant to education as one religion or one nation. The worlds a big place and knowledge of it is better than insular thought.

And Xanik yes it is different. Most Europeans can point to most countries on a Map, if the US has difficulty pointing to it's own it somewhat backward.

 

[ChrTh]

I am bringing this up because I am doing an essay on it.

Okay I know Americans sit on top of the world but really they are cluless as to its history and geography. Many Americans cannot even locate their own country on a map. I am an American citizen and I believe that their should be a balance of all subjects in school because they are all important. Math, Science and English are held higher then History or Geography. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever taken a standarized to test on the subjects.

Do you think history and geography should be held up with higher importance in the classroom?

Also are there any good websites that you can link me to that have information regarding the subject. (For my essay)

You might want to start by having facts straight.

This has the results of a survey of students before the Iraq war started; I'd be interested in a followup to see what the numbers are. However, only 11% of the students couldn't find the US, a lot less than "Many" as you believe (while it is conceivable that older Americans are less likely to know, I somehow doubt it).

Also, pobody's nerfect:

The survey asked 56 geographic and current events questions of young people in nine countries and scored the results with traditional grades.

The surveyed Americans got a "D," with an average of 23 correct answers. Mexico ranked last with an average score of 21, just three points from a failing grade.

Topping the scoring was Sweden, with an average of 40, followed by Germany and Italy, each with 38. None of the countries got an "A," which required average scores of 42 correct answers or better on the 56 questions.

EDIT: If you follow the links, you can take a sample of the test!

"The European Union endorses the euro as the common currency for its members"
Who are the 9% of French students and 7% of German students who got this wrong (link)?!?

 

[Xanikk999]

way to miss the point, who cares about one country of 192, really? One history is as relevant to education as one relgion or one nation. The worlds a big place and knowledge of it is betetr than insular thought.

Dont get me wrong i love history and i read up on world history in my personal time.

Im just saying its not important for everyone and intensive world studies on most cultures shouldnt be required in common curriculum. A basic understanding is good but i fail to see the point of wasting school time over several grades for the ultimate understanding of every country.

I know you didnt say every country but i dont think people should be memorizing everything important about most countries.

 

[Masquerouge]

I agree geography study is lacking in the United States. However i dont think it is particularly different from any other country in the wester world.

But even if it is most americans know enough common geography to get around in life. Everyone knows the capital of most european countries such as germany, france, and great britian. And most people know many asian countries capitals as well.

From my personal US high school experience, I can tell you that the average US teenager knows jackshit about world history and geography.
People asked me if France was in Africa. People told me that Paris was a country by itself. I was the first student that my teacher gave a perfect 100 to on a US history test, and I had been in the States for 3 months.
We had one American exchange student coming here. We went with him to a small village, Clairvaux, that has a nice abbey. He told his parents on the phone he had been to Paris.

Of course that's just my personal experience, and of course a lot of Americans would kick my butt at world geography and history, but on the whole I think Us teenagers do poorly on these subjects. Maybe because they are electives...

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Math, Science and English are held higher then History or Geography. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever taken a standarized to test on the subjects.
)

I would even just say the focus is just on Math and English. Science and history are pushed to the side as there are no standardised tests on the subjects to bolster a school's funding.

 

[Xanikk999]

way to miss the point, who cares about one country of 192, really? One history is as relevant to education as one religion or one nation. The worlds a big place and knowledge of it is better than insular thought.

And Xanik yes it is different. Most Europeans can point to most countries on a Map, if the US has difficulty pointing to it's own it somewhat backward.

Oh i thought you meant capitals. I dont personally have a problem of pointing to different countries on the map and i agree with you.

However maybe not for every country like certain african countries since theres so many in a small area.

 

[Sidhe]

Dont get me wrong i love history and i read up on world history in my personal time.

Im just saying its not important for everyone and intensive world studies on most cultures shouldnt be required in common curriculum. A basic understanding is good but i fail to see the point of wasting school time over several grades for the ultimate understanding of every country.

I know you didnt say every country but i dont think people should be memorizing everything important about most countries.

That bit was directed at Irish not you, sorry I didn't make it clear. The last point was directed at you. And yes of course you don't need to know all about every country but a general overview, that is inherent in European education is a good move, and the choice to pursue it if you wish.

 

[Xanikk999]

From my personal US high school experience, I can tell you that the average US teenager knows jackshit about world history and geography.
People asked me if France was in Africa. People told me that Paris was a country by itself. I was the first student that my teacher gave a perfect 100 to on a US history test, and I had been in the States for 3 months.
We had one American exchange student coming here. We went with him to a small village, Clairvaux, that has a nice abbey. He told his parents on the phone he had been to Paris.

Of course that's just my personal experience, and of course a lot of Americans would kick my butt at world geography and history, but on the whole I think Us teenagers do poorly on these subjects. Maybe because they are electives...

France in africa????

I cant imagine anyone that dumb sorry. They obviously were pulling your leg. Nobody is that stupid. I hope...

 

[ChrTh]

France in africa????

I cant imagine anyone that dumb sorry. They obviously were pulling your leg. Nobody is that stupid. I hope...

Maybe they were confused about Algeria?

 

[CartesianFart]

I think your missing the great Universities of Europe that spawned the greatest thinkers of the 20th century. We arent a hegemony we are a great educational system in the world in conjunction with all western countries and we copied the first universities of Europe. And wherever English spread such as Australia, New Zealand, India etc, etc there stands testament to great educational institutions.

I havent left out the historical development of western universities since i havent mention them,i was only merely stating that most of the english speaking universities of today is the sole responsible reason of many brain-drain in all of the non-english countries and most of them find more opportunities in American corporations since they have the habit of hiring people who have receive not only english training but have gone to the universities that specialize in esoteric leadership skills.I am speaking the new age elites that have no concept of national boundaries.

Even the Islamic countries have some particualry fine institutions as do Israel and China and Russia et al, we should thank the Greeks for the original concept: Greek education for example is much more involved than English or US as I was told by a Greek M.Sc, what he learnt at that level was far more accomplished than what he learnt in his Doctorate in England, which is somewhat ironic

China,Israel,Russia and others are the competitions,the last time i'd checked at this present time,most english speaking universities are winning.

 

[Masquerouge]

France in africa????

I cant imagine anyone that dumb sorry. They obviously were pulling your leg. Nobody is that stupid. I hope...

Dude, people asked me if we had electricity in France. Or fireworks. People asked me if I had eaten shrimps. so unless an entire state was pulling my leg...Okay, that state was Texas but still...

 

[Xanikk999]

Dude, people asked me if we had electricity in France. Or fireworks. People asked me if I had eaten shrimps. so unless an entire state was pulling my leg...Okay, that state was Texas but still...

Well then those people are pure idiots. I dont know the state of the school system in texas but it obviously needs a lot of work.

Maybe they said that in response to the heat wave france had a couple years ago and we found out many people didnt have AC. But still...

 

[ChrTh]

You also have to be careful about how questions are framed.

Malcolm Gladwell does a great job of explaining about how too much information can cause wrong answers:

There's a famous experiment done by a wonderful psychologist at Columbia University named Dan Goldstein. He goes to a class of American college students and asks them which city they think is bigger -- San Antonio or San Diego. The students are divided. Then he goes to an equivalent class of German college students and asks the same question. This time the class votes overwhelmingly for San Diego. The right answer? San Diego. So the Germans are smarter, at least on this question, than the American kids. But that's not because they know more about American geography. It's because they know less. They've never heard of San Antonio. But they've heard of San Diego and using only that rule of thumb, they figure San Diego must be bigger. The American students know way more. They know all about San Antonio. They know it's in Texas and that Texas is booming. They know it has a pro basketball team, so it must be a pretty big market. Some of them may have been in San Antonio and taken forever to drive from one side of town to another -- and that, and a thousand other stray facts about Texas and San Antonio, have the effect of muddling their judgment and preventing them from getting the right answer.

Linkage

Not saying this explains every wrong answer, but it can result in overthinking. If you ask an American what religion has the most members worldwide, they'll probably say Christianity because it's what they're most familiar with. In the geography quiz I linked above, I guessed wrong because I started thinking about disparate populations, etc., trying to actually add in my head. More information led to the wrong answer.

 

[Masquerouge]

Well then those people are pure idiots. I dont know the state of the school system in texas but it obviously needs a lot of work.

Maybe they said that in response to the heat wave france had a couple years ago and we found out many people didnt have AC. But still...

It was in 1992.

 

[warpus]

I am not too impressed with the Canadian education system either - one of my friends once asked me if Poland is in South America.. He wasn't kidding either!