[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Berzerker]

It would also be irrelevant because Trump wasn't in a position to vote for or against the crime bill, so anyone marking that as a positive for Trump is being disingenuous. Giving Trump credit for not voting for the crime bill makes about as much sense as giving my three year old daughter credit for not voting for it.

The House GOP opposed the bill 3 to 1 and the Democrats voted for it 3 to 1

Confirmed: Biden officially worse than neo-nazis.

He certainly ruined the lives of more people

The annexation of Black Lives Matter to the Democratic Party machine was an inevitable consequence of the American non-profit sector's dependence on political patronage. It's not a question of the moral failings of the organisation's leaders, because it's a structural feature of American public life.

The only politically-oriented civil society organisations which are resistant to this process are churches and labour unions, which have an independence source of funding. It's not a coincidence that these sorts of organisations played such an important role in the Civil Rights Movement.

Will corporate sponsorship reduce BLM's involvement with violence? That would be a good thing, but on the other hand if its deemed the violence coerced the sponsors that is not good. It becomes extortion. If you want Target's money, burn down a couple of their stores.

 

[Traitorfish]

Will corporate sponsorship reduce BLM's involvement with violence? That would be a good thing, but on the other hand if its deemed the violence coerced the sponsors that is not good. It becomes extortion. If you want Target's money, burn down a couple of their stores.

I'm sorry, but you surely understand that Black Lives Matter, the non-government organisation, is not the same thing as the broader protest movement? You surely don't believe that a riot has an official website and paid employees?

 

[Commodore]

The House GOP opposed the bill 3 to 1 and the Democrats voted for it 3 to 1

So Trump gets to take credit for everything Republicans have done from a time that was long before he even considered running for office? Especially considering Trump was a registered Democrat in the 1990s?

Seriously, your post doesn't serve as a counterpoint to what I said. Not even a little bit.

 

[Lexicus]

Not a Republican. Nor do I generally agree with them. But there's more to the party than that.

"The primary" =/= "the only"

 

[r16]

just wondering , when this "America, love it or leave it" came up ? "Ya sev ya terket" is the exact equal much used by the almost racists , maybe for 10 years now ?

 

[W|M]

just wondering , when this "America, love it or leave it" came up ? "Ya sev ya terket" is the exact equal much used by the almost racists , maybe for 10 years now ?

''brasil: ame-o ou deixe-o'' was also a notorious slogan used by the military dictatorship here

 

[Berzerker]

I'm sorry, but you surely understand that Black Lives Matter, the non-government organisation, is not the same thing as the broader protest movement? You surely don't believe that a riot has an official website and paid employees?

Yes, BLM is an organization and not the same thing as the broader movement. If BLM doesn't specifically order riots, they provide cover for those who do destroy other people's property if not encouragement. Regardless, if violence becomes associated with the protests it will taint BLM too and corporate sponsors will face a backlash. I think its already started.

So Trump gets to take credit for everything Republicans have done from a time that was long before he even considered running for office? Especially considering Trump was a registered Democrat in the 1990s? Seriously, your post doesn't serve as a counterpoint to what I said. Not even a little bit.

Trump was vying for Ross Perot's Reform Party back in the 90s and more right leaning Democrats opposed the '94 crime bill too. Trump had been a registered Democrat because it was NYC and he was pals with the Clintons, but his future was with a Reform-GOP coalition. He may have supported it but the bill's gun control measures is largely why it met with resistance.

 

[Seon]

To judge a protest by the behavior of its worst members and not the police by the behavior of its worst is the language of the oppressor.

 

[r16]

''brasil: ame-o ou deixe-o'' was also a notorious slogan used by the military dictatorship here

thanks , gives some back date and wasn't surprised at all to discover it wasn't invented here !

 

[Crezth]

If 'protesters' attack people or their property based on skin color, they are racists. I'm hoping to encourage peaceful protests, not just to spare the innocent victims but endorsing or defending riots, arson and looting hurts the cause.

Not understanding how riots come from government oppression is probably the cringiest thing about libertarianism. You've got people being shot dead in cold blood by government agents, Trump on the watch, and the only thing you can bring yourself to do is point at the Democrats and go "But!! But!!!"

There is far more to BLM than Democrats and corporate sponsors. There will always be people who want to turn any genuine movement into an opportunity to aggrandize their own power. But the streets aren't filled with paid protesters and Democrat shills. They're filled with unemployed, hungry, angry people who are sick that the state keeps murdering them. Read the room.

 

[Berzerker]

To judge a protest by the behavior of its worst members and not the police by the behavior of its worst is the language of the oppressor.

What is the goal of the protest if not convincing the oppressor to change? Of course the protest has a higher bar, the moral high ground cant be won if protests are accompanied by violent crime. At that point the cops will be seen more favorably even if they do over react.

Not understanding how riots come from government oppression is probably the cringiest thing about libertarianism. You've got people being shot dead in cold blood by government agents, Trump on the watch, and the only thing you can bring yourself to do is point at the Democrats and go "But!! But!!!"

There is far more to BLM than Democrats and corporate sponsors. There will always be people who want to turn any genuine movement into an opportunity to aggrandize their own power. But the streets aren't filled with paid protesters and Democrat shills. They're filled with unemployed, hungry, angry people who are sick that the state keeps murdering them. Read the room.

Thats right, libertarians never rioted against government oppression and Lysander Spooner believed you had the right to attack his bodyguard. Shouldn't those agents face prosecution? Isn't that a given or do I need to preface everything I say with 'agents shouldn't kill people in cold blood'?

I didn't mention the Democrats in that post, they're trying to maintain a safe distance from the violence because they dont want to alienate all those 'oppressors' who disapprove of riots destroying people's property.

 

[Seon]

Ah, so you are actually saying that police should be afforded more benefit of the doubt and should be held to a less stringent standard of ethics than protesters.

I could try to rebutt but I think this is self-evidently an absurd proposition from a socially liberal perspective.

 

[W|M]

What is the goal of the protest if not convincing the oppressor to change? Of course the protest has a higher bar, the moral high ground cant be won if protests are accompanied by violent crime. At that point the cops will be seen more favorably even if they do over react.

the main goal of (effective) protests is to force the oppressor to grant concessions, not to petition them politely

Thats right, libertarians never rioted against government oppression and Lysander Spooner believed you had the right to attack his bodyguard. Shouldn't those agents face prosecution? Isn't that a given or do I need to preface everything I say with 'agents shouldn't kill people in cold blood'?

actual libertarians do in fact riot against oppression. semi-ancap ''''libertarians'''' do not

 

[Crezth]

Thats right, libertarians never rioted against government oppression and Lysander Spooner believed you had the right to attack his bodyguard. Shouldn't those agents face prosecution? Isn't that a given or do I need to preface everything I say with 'agents shouldn't kill people in cold blood'?

It's not a given when you keep expressing support for that government despite what its agents do lol.

Stop summoning Lysander Spooner, he'd hate your secret government's protection racket.

 

[Berzerker]

Ah, so you are actually saying that police should be afforded more benefit of the doubt and should be held to a less stringent standard of ethics than protesters.

I could try to rebutt but I think this is self-evidently an absurd proposition from a socially liberal perspective.

Everyone, cop or protester, should be prosecuted if they violate someone's rights. But cops are risking their lives for us so most people will give them some leeway. If you keep organizing protests and people use them to riot, you're gonna suffer in the court of public opinion. Thats why MLK wanted peaceful protests and why BLM and their sponsors will face a backlash if the violence continues.

the main goal of (effective) protests is to force the oppressor to grant concessions, not to petition them politely

WWJD

It's not a given when you keep expressing support for that government despite what its agents do lol.

Stop summoning Lysander Spooner, he'd hate your secret government's protection racket.

Where did I support the Minneapolis govt or the cop who killed Floyd? Spooner supported the right of people to bargain for protection, he was opposed to paying for it against his will.

 

[Seon]

Riot is the language of the unheard

 

[Berzerker]

riot is the language of amoral bullies

you might agree if they looted and burned down your house or business

 

[Seon]

 

[W|M]

WWJD

matthew 21:12

 

[Berzerker]

unheard amoral bullies saving us from racism by attacking innocent people of other races

In other news, the noose hanging in Nascar driver Bubba Wallace's garage turned out to be a handle for operating the door and all of the stalls had them. The FBI sent 15 agents to investigate.

matthew 21:12

Touche... what would Jesus teach?