Yeah, overthrowing the government may be very painful, but it might be necessary. We disagree on a lot of political issues, but I think we agree that this government is no longer serving the people and working within the system doesn't seem to do anything to change that fact.
Well considering DHS just announced they are going national with their disregard for the bill of rights and states rights I'm more inclined to agree then ever. . .
Department should had never been created, it was inevitable it was going to get used on honest US citizens. I'm super pissed atm so I should stop there.
Yes, it is my opinion - and also simplest explanation by far. You are welcome to propose an alternative theory that would describe a mechanism by which dropping foot patrols causes a drop in burglaries. I would be quite sincerely impressed.
As I said, I am open to a debate on overall effectiveness on "broken window theory", but I'll have you note its proponents claim it is "in large part responsible for NYC going from a city that in 1990 had 9.6% of the nation’s homicides to a city that in 2013 had 2.4% of the nation’s homicides". I won't rush to any conclusions, but I find a drop of 400% over two decades more convincing evidence than a drop of 4% over 2 months.
I am no fan of US police. It appears poorly trained, often excessively violent
Spoiler:
(EDIT: see https://9gag.com/gag/azmAQ4N for an example of behavior I could not begin to imagine from Estonian police. I half-heartedly hoped the video is staged, but apparently not. The guy wasn't even the one they were after!)
and lacking in supervision.
However that may be, every society requires law enforcement. If one does not trust in possibiity of reform, I guess one can advocate for secession or revolution. That is what happened in Soviet Union in any case.
Again, your argument presupposes that the data being collected by police beforehand is correct. That is exactly what we object to and is the basis for assuming “crime” goes down: what is actually going down is the “crimes” the police invent, for which we have ample evidence is done. It must be said, for example, the Minneapolis riots only began when the police began shooting and gassing the crowd.
Over the period of time you’re praising the police policy effectiveness, the prison population in America rose 1.5 million, a 200% increase. It is now the largest in the world, both in absolute numbers and proportionally.
Such as it is, and given your commentary on the USSR, surely you can understand why Black communities would prefer just to do away with their oppressors’ armed agents? And assuming we agree that’s impossible with the USA as it is, then it should be plain to see these protests will only become more radical, just as happens to every oppressed population in history.
Y'know, I was watching Fox News earlier and they had these big letters splashed across the screen saying how this has all been hijacked by the ‘far-left’™.
So, a) it's far. I.e. it's beyond some sort of boundary of acceptability.
And b) it's ‘left’, therefore not a tolerable excess from our own good guys who can shift between alt-right and far-right, but the opponents turned enemies.
DHS informs NPR that the new policy of federal agents kidnapping protesters in the dead of night in Portland will not only not stop, but also now be applied nation wide.
We have concentration camps, people being arrested and/or attacked by a militarized police force and being essentially kidnapped and "disappeared" and yet the libertarians and republicans still refuse to acknowledge how close we are to fascism, If we haven't already passed that line.
I think it's because they're personally comfortable with the types of people being targeted, I think it's because it's closer yo what they actually want.
I am no fan of US police. It appears poorly trained, often excessively violent
Spoiler:
(EDIT: see https://9gag.com/gag/azmAQ4N for an example of behavior I could not begin to imagine from Estonian police. I half-heartedly hoped the video is staged, but apparently not. The guy wasn't even the one they were after!)
Again, your argument presupposes that the data being collected by police beforehand is correct. That is exactly what we object to and is the basis for assuming “crime” goes down: what is actually going down is the “crimes” the police invent, for which we have ample evidence is done.
I was talking of a reduction in crime reported to police during the "slowdown" across Dec 2013-Jan 2014.
Any claim of there having been a reduction in the first place presupposes the data collected by police is correct.
If you wish to dismiss entirety of existing crime statistics as inherently untrustworthy, you can of course claim whatever you want.
Was this shooting spree mentioned earlier in the thread also invented by police?
The chaos unfolded on the first weekend since NYPD Commissioner Dermot Shea announced he was disbanding undercover anti-crime units across every precinct
New York City shootings over the last seven days skyrocketed by more than 358 percent compared with the same time period in 2019, from just 12 last year to 55 in 2020, according to NYPD data News 4 reported Monday.
Over the period of time you’re praising the police policy effectiveness, the prison population in America rose 1.5 million, a 200% increase. It is now the largest in the world, both in absolute numbers and proportionally.
Such as it is, and given your commentary on the USSR, surely you can understand why Black communities would prefer just to do away with their oppressors’ armed agents? And assuming we agree that’s impossible with the USA as it is, then it should be plain to see these protests will only become more radical, just as happens to every oppressed population in history.
I was talking of a reduction in crime reported to police during the "slowdown" across Dec 2013-Jan 2014.
Any claim of there having been a reduction in the first place presupposes the data collected by police is correct.
If you wish to dismiss entirety of existing crime statistics as inherently untrustworthy, you can of course claim whatever you want.
Was this shooting spree mentioned earlier in the thread also invented by police?
You can't just redefine the terms of the argument. As per Sonereal's original argument, "crime" went down. The reports indicate it at least went down. You can question that if you want, but again we know the official reports are fudged too.. Nobody wants to dismiss all independent observations: the point is you can't trust an authoritarian policing force that only wants to cover its own ass. Other crimes, vis a vis shooting sprees, we can let independent media and community leaders tell us about. In any case Americans are quite used to police being hopeless at preventing mass shootings even when they do occur.
You act incredulous but you realize that this isn't even a new thing right?
I'm sure as an englishman you'd be well aware of the concept of extraordinary rendition, so what makes it implausible for it to happen to Americans?
Live give us a break, you're here to clearly crap on the idea of disappearances/kidnappings happen even whilst there's historical precedence of it happening in your own country, by the American government!
You can't just redefine the terms of the argument. As per Sonereal's original argument, "crime" went down. The reports indicate it at least went down. You can question that if you want, but again we know the official reports are fudged too.. Nobody wants to dismiss all independent observations: the point is you can't trust an authoritarian policing force that only wants to cover its own ass. Other crimes, vis a vis shooting sprees, we can let independent media and community leaders tell us about. In any case Americans are quite used to police being hopeless at preventing mass shootings even when they do occur.
I think I've been rather clear on that US police has serious issues that need to be addressed. Urgently.
However, do you really think "doing away with police" is going to improve overall life expectancy of black Americans?
I am aware that there are a very large number of black men in gaol in the USA.
Some people may call those USA goals 'concentration camps' and I am not
arguing with that, but the prisoners there names are at listed somewhere.
The question is, is there a list of missing black USA citizens who have
simply dissappeared and whose whereabouts (if still alive) is unknown?
That's a good example of a firearm being a danger chiefly to its owner.
So a policeman was spooked by a guy who opened the door holding a gun and shot him.
Maybe the shooter was stressed out, badly trained, generally unsuitable to his job, or all three. I'd expect him to be charged and punished.
At least the victim was white, or I'm sure you'd claim this is an evidence of racism as well.
It's also remarkable, how there's another thread about people who pulled a gun in response to a lengthy harassment and were instantly branded dangerous maniacs, while a guy who answered a simple knock to the door holding a gun is just another innocent victim.
How many black Americans are killed by police? How many are killed by everybody else?
What impact might "doing away with police" have on the second figure?
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