[RD] George Floyd and protesting while black

[Yeekim]

This is parsing, and also speculation. You have no evidence for your assertion that the "slight" drop of reported crime is most likely random or a failure to report. Based on what? Your opinion on the matter?

The police maintained "core duties" (as defined by you)... and sharply dropped foot patrols. The argument that you take cops off the streets and crime goes down is still there.

Yes, it is my opinion - and also simplest explanation by far. You are welcome to propose an alternative theory that would describe a mechanism by which dropping foot patrols causes a drop in burglaries. I would be quite sincerely impressed.
As I said, I am open to a debate on overall effectiveness on "broken window theory", but I'll have you note its proponents claim it is "in large part responsible for NYC going from a city that in 1990 had 9.6% of the nation’s homicides to a city that in 2013 had 2.4% of the nation’s homicides". I won't rush to any conclusions, but I find a drop of 400% over two decades more convincing evidence than a drop of 4% over 2 months.

And you're talking to people for whom the ineffectiveness and corruption of American police is lived experience. At a minimum policing in black communities is a reign of terror. You wouldn't tell people whose family were disappeared by the Soviet state that "Well we can't just have no Soviet police at all." Hell it'd be reasonable to conclude they'd just want to get rid of those police entirely, and maybe arrange for their own protection outside a giant municipal bureaucracy that systematically marginalizes Black and impoverished voices. Er, non-Soviet voices. You know what I mean.

I am no fan of US police. It appears poorly trained, often excessively violent

Spoiler :

(EDIT: see https://9gag.com/gag/azmAQ4N for an example of behavior I could not begin to imagine from Estonian police. I half-heartedly hoped the video is staged, but apparently not. The guy wasn't even the one they were after!)

and lacking in supervision.
However that may be, every society requires law enforcement. If one does not trust in possibiity of reform, I guess one can advocate for secession or revolution. That is what happened in Soviet Union in any case.

 

[El_Machinae]

Wouldn't just finding the source of the claim that 'crime went down' speed up the ability to figure out if it's a useful claim?

 

[Berzerker]

So Proud Boys are the US government and since antifa attacks them that is a declaration of war? I mean I've seen some stretching on both sides of this argument over the past couple fo months but c'mon man.

Also the rest of your response is hilarious as a "libertarian" I mean its like the name is intentionally ironic. Is it? Is that the point? It's like haha we're "libertarians"!

If the Proud Boys attack other protesters the government should punish them.

You never hear libertarians ask for justice for Breonna Taylor.

I've mentioned her several times to condemn the drug war and no knock raids.

Free speech is my enemy, personally.

I figured that out after you wanted the job of deciding what I can hear

Americans have free speech and they use it to spread myths about 5G causing COVID-19, masks causing hypoxia, libertarianism, and boomer memes about Antifa.

And RussiaGate... So? Is there some reason you should be the only one spreading myths?

https://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-proactive-policing-crime-20170925-story.html

Lot of scary words here but I'm sure you can walk yourself through it and that I didn't waste my time with a two second Google search to dig up literally the first result so I don't have to personally come to your house and walk you through it.

You said crime went down because of a police strike, proving it aint my job. Your article doesn't say the police were on strike, they had a work 'slowdown', they changed their focus from 'broken windows' to more serious crime. From your article:

“A serious concern is that proactive policing (broken windows) diverts finite resources and attention away from investigative units, including detectives working to track down serial offenders and break up criminal networks

The cops didn't stop dealing with serious crime, they had even more people available to focus on it. The article is challenging the efficacy of the broken windows theory, not if cops are needed. And frankly the drop in crime was so small with winter setting in I'd be surprised if crime rates dont dip with temperatures anyway.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/does-cold-stop-crime-it-seems-so-n309856

The deep freeze gripping the eastern half of the country has become a sort of test case for a popular notion about the relationship between weather and crime: Law-breaking slows when it's cold, and picks up as the temperature rises.

That article is from Feb 2015, your article is for late 2014 to early 2015. Coincidence? NYC was in the midst of an arctic blast I guess, even the cops didn't want to be outside. I hope the enlightened ones guarding the Temple of Truth factored that into their version of reality.

I'm not a third grader holding desperately onto myths of libertarianism, Zerky pal. I'm absolutely pro-oppressing the living hell out of the bourgeoisie.

I'm not your pal, guy

 

[Lexicus]

However that may be, every society requires law enforcement. If one does not trust in possibiity of reform, I guess one can advocate for secession or revolution. That is what happened in Soviet Union in any case.

Does "law enforcement" necessarily mean "professional, heavily armed police force" though?

I've mentioned her several times to condemn the drug war and no knock raids.

Yeah, but you reject anything that would concretely resemble accountability for the police so, as many have pointed out, this is just a performance you use to try to disarm criticism and obscure the fact that you are a fascist who believes that agents of the state, and indeed vigilante murderers, should be allowed to kill people without answering to the law at all.

 

[Berzerker]

Yeah, but you reject anything that would concretely resemble accountability for the police so, as many have pointed out, this is just a performance you use to try to disarm criticism and obscure the fact that you are a fascist who believes that agents of the state, and indeed vigilante murderers, should be allowed to kill people without answering to the law at all.

What have I rejected? I said Floyd's killer was a sadist and should be prosecuted, does that qualify as accountability? You should let others make their own arguments, accusing people of being dishonest with your track record of straw men is hypocritical.

Oh, and btw, you want us to vote for a man who devoted a half century to creating the environment that cost Breonna Taylor her life. Calling other people fascists because of state violence when you endorse the candidate with the most state violence blood on his hands is pukeworthy.

 

[Yeekim]

Does "law enforcement" necessarily mean "professional, heavily armed police force" though?

"Professional" (as in appropriately trained and qualified) is a good word in my lexicon. This also implies ability to use arms in a judicious manner.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Does "law enforcement" necessarily mean "professional, heavily armed police force" though?

Be careful, friend, that logic could easily lead you to the commie concept of militsiya.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

"Professional" (as in appropriately trained and qualified) is a good word in my lexicon. This also implies ability to use arms in a judicious manner.

You cannot seriously believe the police in America are in anyway professional, across the board

 

[Bugfatty300]

What have I rejected?

You certainly haven't rejected being called racist and fascist.

 

[Estebonrober]

If the Proud Boys attack other protesters the government should punish them.

https://www.portlandmercury.com/blo...ship-between-portland-cops-and-patriot-prayer

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-d...-philadelphia-police-and-far-right-proud-boys

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/5/27/21272143/chicago-police-department-officers-antifa-proud-boys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

Yea you know what you can do with your hot take here. . . the "libertarian", as the federales kidnap protesters in unmarked vehicles with no identification or reasons for detainment, defends? The Proud Boys and the local police aligned with them. Give him a fudging hand people, he is showing us how freedom from fascist tyranny is done people!

 

[Estebonrober]

So what do you plan on doing about it? Complaining on internet forums isn't going to work. Complaining on social media isn't going to work. Marching with a sign in your hand isn't going to work. Writing your representative isn't going to work. Voting isn't going to work.

So again, what are you going to do about this? What's the plan to stop this from happening?

Well I've done all the above thus far now. So yea I guess lil ani better get his gun! yea I'm currently not looking to overthrow the government single handedly and believe an all out overthrow would be insanely dangerous considering the current make up of the US. I mean literally in five years I could see Mexico and Canada becoming Lebensraum. I'm not kidding. you know we have administration officials p[laying games with the "fourteen words" . . . I know people whom might line up behind a similar soundbite. It just needs better "branding".

 

[Berzerker]

You certainly haven't rejected being called racist and fascist.

Yes I have... Name calling is common around here and those are the most popular ones with the echo chamber. And he didn't call me a racist, he called me a fascist. The rest of my post which you conveniently chopped off was a rejection of both accusations.

Yea you know what you can do with your hot take here. . . the "libertarian", as the federales kidnap protesters in unmarked vehicles with no identification or reasons for detainment, defends? The Proud Boys and the local police aligned with them. Give him a ******* hand people, he is showing us how freedom from fascist tyranny is done people!

You'll have to quote your links. If the Proud Boys attacked protesters the government should punish them. If the local cops conspired with Proud Boys to attack protesters they should be punished too.

 

[Estebonrober]

Yes I have... Name calling is common around here and those are the most popular ones with the echo chamber. And he didn't call me a racist, he called me a fascist. The rest of my post which you conveniently chopped off was a rejection of both accusations.



You'll have to quote your links. If the Proud Boys attacked protesters the government should punish them. If the local cops conspired with Proud Boys to attack protesters they should be punished too.

./sigh

The obvious point is @Berzerker is that they feel they are on the same side. It makes logical sense, they both have completely fascist motives. This is the USA we've always been far more likely to turn into the second incarnation of a major fascist power then a communist one. Its like you are not familiar with the history of the US government at all man.

Yes I agree they should be punished, no I have no faith this current incarnation of Federal or almost any State government can or will do this appropriately.

 

[Estebonrober]

https://theintercept.com/2020/07/15...nBOuQvR2jJEE3zRgkRkcV5FbrNqB-T0BQWRiRbl1jQInM

In all, the BlueLeaks archive contains more than 16 million rows of data from hundreds of thousands of hacked database tables: not just personal information of officers, but the content of bulk emails and newsletters, descriptions of alleged crimes with geolocation coordinates, internal survey results, website logs, and so much more. It also contains hundreds of thousands of PDFs and Microsoft Office documents, thousands of videos, and millions of images.

“I think that law enforcement can be better if [evidence of police crimes and racial bias] can be made more public,” Goff said. “The emails and records that I’ve seen could absolutely take down the entire profession.”

I'd expect a steady leak of terrible things for quite some time considering all the terrible things going on in the open.

 

[Berzerker]

./sigh

The obvious point is @Berzerker is that they feel they are on the same side. It makes logical sense, they both have completely fascist motives. This is the USA we've always been far more likely to turn into the second incarnation of a major fascist power then a communist one. Its like you are not familiar with the history of the US government at all man.

Yes I agree they should be punished, no I have no faith this current incarnation of Federal or almost any State government can or will do this appropriately.

Antifa attacks protesters, defending free speech from them aint fascism. I understand the ideological alignments involved, if that turned into an actual conspiracy between cops and Proud Boys to attack protesters they should be punished.

 

[Estebonrober]

Antifa attacks protesters, defending free speech from them aint fascism. I understand the ideological alignments involved, if that turned into an actual conspiracy between cops and Proud Boys to attack protesters they should be punished.

the libertarian puts his fingers in his ears and sings "lalala freedom liberty lalala"

 

[Seon]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1284337917981274115

DHS informs NPR that the new policy of federal agents kidnapping protesters in the dead of night in Portland will not only not stop, but also now be applied nation wide.

 

[Bugfatty300]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1284337917981274115

DHS informs NPR that the new policy of federal agents kidnapping protesters in the dead of night in Portland will not only not stop, but also now be applied nation wide.

I'm afraid I'll get banned if I say what I think should happen to those DHS agents. November really is this nation's last chance.

 

[Seon]

As an unrelated aside, legal precedents exist justifying defensive violence against police if they operate without identifying themselves first.

in addition these are ICE agents, largely.

 

[Commodore]

Well I've done all the above thus far now. So yea I guess lil ani better get his gun! yea I'm currently not looking to overthrow the government single handedly and believe an all out overthrow would be insanely dangerous considering the current make up of the US. I mean literally in five years I could see Mexico and Canada becoming Lebensraum. I'm not kidding. you know we have administration officials p[laying games with the "fourteen words" . . . I know people whom might line up behind a similar soundbite. It just needs better "branding".

Yeah, overthrowing the government may be very painful, but it might be necessary. We disagree on a lot of political issues, but I think we agree that this government is no longer serving the people and working within the system doesn't seem to do anything to change that fact.